Industry Committee on March 31st, 2009

[Roger Charland]

I think it may be more realistic if we got back to the clerk first thing tomorrow morning with an indication as to whether or not we can submit our views on the CBCA's 50 recommendations in both languages by the end of the day, which then might allow the committee to adjust.

I think after this it would still be difficult for me. I'd have to go back and consult with a few people.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Sure, that would be reasonable, and then the clerk can coordinate with all members of the committee. We can have a discussion about what we're doing Thursday off-line and then decide tomorrow morning what we're doing Thursday.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

To be clear, I'd especially like to hear those other specific recommendations that have been made by other organizations as well. We've had very specific ones too.

I'm going to want to talk to some of those organizations as well in terms of the response, so that's why tomorrow is important. There are other organizations in the testimony. Over the last number of weeks there have been very explicit requests either to change legislation or to omit clauses. Other organizations like the United Way are struggling. They want changes in things like the previous clause 375, but I don't think they're at a point where they could specifically say to us what those are because they don't have the capacity to do so.

Has a specific dollar amount been allocated for promotion and training by the department from this bill?

[Coleen Kirby]

No. Corporations Canada has undertaken to cover off, out of its regular budget, whatever is required with respect to the transition associated with this bill. We anticipate a fair number of documents having to be written, some of which we worked on after Bill C-21. So we're starting from a base; we're not starting from square one. We anticipate workshops, across-the-country meetings, either in conjunction with national organizations or the Canada Revenue Agency or independent of our own, to run training. That has been our approach.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

So it's going to come from you and Corporations Canada?

[Coleen Kirby]

I am Corporations Canada—

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Okay, sorry.

[Coleen Kirby]

—and we have our own budget. That's independent of the A-base we get from the government, and therefore it's budgeted.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

I'd like to know what that budget number is and also the business plan on how the promotion is going to happen. Can that be tabled with the committee?

[Roger Charland]

There isn't one at this point. There may be the yearly business plan.

[Coleen Kirby]

We do a yearly business plan, but at the moment this has not been worked into it. This has unfortunately been a bill that's been on-again, off-again, so it's very much going to depend on what year or when it finally gets royal assent.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Yes, but what we've heard from witnesses is a concern about how this is rolled out. I think it's a legitimate concern they're expressing. To show some type of plan.... I would hope that the government would have something in store in terms of it being a normal process if you're going to change something like this.

I'm going to move on to my last question. In terms of the consultations in 2000, 2001, and 2005, were there any reports tabled on those consultations?

[Wayne Lennon]

A summary for 2000 and 2002 was posted on the Industry Canada website. That can be provided to the committee if you wish. We have it in both official languages.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

That would be helpful, because other groups are asking for that as well.

[Wayne Lennon]

I believe we have the 2005 one.

Yes, we have a summary of the 2005 one, which was conducted by Corporations Canada.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

On a point of order, I would comment on what Mr. Masse was mentioning. To suggest that there should be a communications plan prepared for a bill that hasn't passed yet, and when we don't even know what the bill is going to look like because we haven't gone through clause-by-clause, I think is a little more demanding than we ought to be.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Okay, I appreciate that--

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

There are the officials at the table in front of us--

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

That's not a point of order, but I thank you for that, Mr. Lake.

Thank you, Mr. Masse.

Mr. Wallace.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

One of the things we've been hearing about--and I look forward to your comments and responses--is that a few of the organizations, particularly the charitable organizations that have been represented here, talked about remedies. They feel that to make it simpler there could be a remedy section, I guess you would call it, instead of remedies throughout the document.

I've been with big charities. I used to work for Easter Seals. I've been with smaller groups. I started my own. I know the bill is trying to cover charities of all sizes. It's very difficult to have one for one size and one for another. This is trying to fit all of them. I think it did a pretty good job. That would be one thing.

I take it that departments have had somebody monitoring these meetings. Is that correct? Did you know that we were doing line-by-line on Thursday?

[Wayne Lennon]

We had an indication that it might be the case, but we haven't seen a notice of meeting.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

I just wondered, because I think I was the one who asked the committee to make sure you guys were here today. I was expecting that maybe you'd be able to respond to some of the things we had heard, other than from the people today, of course. I didn't expect that.

But on what the bar association said a week ago now, I guess, or three weeks ago, I thought you'd be ready to tell us what you thought. That's a comment. I'll let you respond to it if you'd like.

[Roger Charland]

Regarding the first question, the remedies are generally all consolidated. The exceptions are where we felt there was a reason to do so and where the drafters felt there was a reason to do so, in light of who is allowed to use the remedies, so they kind of grouped it. That was more the drafting in light of who can initiate what remedies.

In terms of your second comment, we are ready to speak to some of the points and questions. We're more than happy to answer. What I was saying is that on the specific 50 provisions, specific with the worded text of the CBCA, and going through each of their almost motion-like recommendations, it is difficult at this point to say whether we would or would not agree to support some of their wording and proposals.

On some of the general points they were making in terms of part 6 and part 7 and whether they should stay in or not, we can speak to the issue. On that particular issue, for example, we felt that these provisions are contingency plans, so they were placed not as additional obligations, but when the situation occurs.... If a given corporation were to proceed to engage in those activities, they'd have clear rules that they could follow instead of wondering what they must do.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

So in general, based on what you've heard from the witnesses we've heard from, you're still satisfied with the bill as presented to us at this point in its current form--and we've heard from most--and that it should proceed in its current form without an amendment. Based on the testimony we've heard thus far, would that be an accurate statement?

[Roger Charland]

That would be accurate.