Evidence of meeting #34 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was workers.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

David Paterson  President and Chief Executive Officer, AbitibiBowater Inc.
David Coles  President, Communications, Energy and Paperworkers Union of Canada
Gaétan Ménard  Secretary-Treasurer, National Office, Communications, Energy and Paperworkers Union of Canada
Julien Lamontagne  President, Dolbeau-Mistassini, Paperworkers Division, Communications, Energy and Paperworkers Union of Canada
Gaston Carrière  President, Local 142, Communications, Energy and Paperworkers Union of Canada
Georges Simard  Mayor, City of Dolbeau-Mistassini
Jean-Pierre Boivin  Reeve, Regional County Municipality of Maria-Chapdelaine (Quebec)
Yves Lachapelle  Director, Supply and Services, Quebec Forest Industry Council
Justine Hendricks  Vice-President, Resources Group, Export Development Canada
Don Stephenson  Assistant Deputy Minister, Trade Policy and Negotiations, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade

9:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Michael Chong

I would like to welcome you all, on this Friday, September 10, 2010 to our 34th meeting of the Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology.

Welcome to members of the public, to members of the committee, and to our witnesses.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we are meeting today as part of our study on the permanent closure of the AbitibiBowater of plants in Gatineau and Dolbeau-Mistassini.

We have in front of us this morning two witnesses from AbitibiBowater. We have Mr. Paterson, who is the president and chief executive officer, and Mr. Robertson, who is the chief restructuring officer.

Welcome to you both. You may begin with an opening statement.

9:30 a.m.

David Paterson President and Chief Executive Officer, AbitibiBowater Inc.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I am here today to discuss the company and the restructuring process, from which the company will hopefully soon emerge.

Due to the economic conditions that we faced and the lack of sufficient funding within the business to continue without filing for court protection, we filed 16 months ago both in the United States and in Canada. Our main challenge at that time, which remains in the marketplace today, was declining demand for our primary product, newsprint. We are the world's largest producer of newsprint, and that market has seen a significant demand destruction. In our belief, there is no expectation for recovery in demand for that product going forward.

We also saw a significant reduction in the United States housing market. That is a key component for our company, since in eastern Canada, primarily in the province of Quebec, we are a significant producer of lumber. As we all know, the U.S. housing market has still not recovered. For many of our other products, we saw significant swings in demand and pricing due to the global economic situation we faced.

On top of that, we were faced with debt maturities and debt refinancing in the spring of 2008. That was not that long ago, but if we remember back, that was at the height of the credit crisis, the meltdown on Wall Street, the failure of Lehman Brothers, all issues that are still affecting credit markets and capital markets across the globe.

In response, we filed for the companies as I mentioned, but we also immediately started the process of restructuring the company, which included selling assets, and which unfortunately included idling and closing assets across our system in both Canada and the United States as well as in Great Britain. Of course this unfortunately impacted employees and communities across our system. We are here today to discuss those impacts.

Throughout this process we have survived, and we are back on the road to recovery and hope to emerge from bankruptcy soon as a much more flexible company. That could not have been done without the support of the employees of the company who are continuing to operate in a safe and now profitable fashion across Canada and all of our systems.

One of the major steps we undertook was to reduce the cost of operating the company. We have reduced our SG&A, the administrative costs of running our company, by 50%, which is some $160 million a year. That includes significant reductions in staffing at our headquarters as well as across the entire system.

Ultimately this company will succeed as we emerge with a de-leveraged balance sheet. I want to remind the committee that at the time we filed, we had approximately $6.8 billion of debt, and we anticipate emerging with roughly $1 billion of debt as a highly de-leveraged company coming out of this process.

Let me talk for a second about the process we've gone through. The key was, of course, to get the support of our creditors in both the U.S. and Canada. To do that, we had to develop a business plan. That business plan has been submitted and approved by the creditors. It is the base plan for our go-forward strategy, and it contemplated a very de-leveraged, very flexible, very low-cost manufacturing platform based on declining demand in newsprint and the conversion of assets away from newsprint at a pace that matched the decline in consumption of newsprint.

Another key component of the plan was the resolution of our NAFTA claim. That has been resolved and is part of our emergence plan. As we go forward, we will have to continue to battle with the demand components of our market and with the fact that, whether we produce in Canada or in the United States, we have to compete globally, remembering that we are in a free trade industry. When we compete for orders we're competing with Europeans, Asians, and South Americans. At the same time, we're selling our products primarily out of Canada to many of those same markets. Canada is our export platform and will remain our export platform going forward.

Another issue that is always a challenge for our company is the exchange rate. The relationship between the Canadian dollar and the U.S. dollar is important, because we have always been a larger manufacturer in Canada than in the U.S. We will be a larger manufacturer at emergence as well. Our costs are more than 50% in Canadian dollars, but our revenues are predominantly in U.S. dollars, so the ability to implement hedging policies on currency issues is important to us. We have to be out of bankruptcy to do that.

As I mentioned a minute ago, one of our strategies to deal with the decline in newsprint demand is to continue conversion projects away from newsprint, in essence to stop shrinking the company in terms of closing facilities but start converting facilities to other products, dealing with the demand destruction components to newsprint in a positive sense in the sense of reinvesting in assets and making products other than newsprint to deal with the decline.

Looking at the next steps, as we sit here today we're very close to starting the process of raising our new funds; in terms of the capital raise, that will start next week. We are in the process of resolving many issues as related to our pension obligations in Quebec, and then ultimately Ontario. All these matters have to be resolved in a successful manner in terms of our ability to exit. Our creditors want these matters resolved before they'll support the exit plan and essentially write off their debt and accept equity in replacement of their debt obligation.

Over the next several weeks, you'll see the company raising capital, concluding agreements with the provincial governments, primarily in Quebec and Ontario, and starting the process of re-engaging with our creditors, and ultimately our new investors, on the future of the company. That future needs to be one that ensures the profitability and sustainability of the enterprise so that we can meet our obligations to creditors, to investors, as well as our employees.

Let me finish my statement by saying that our goal from this entire process was not to attack the pension plans of our retirees and our active employees, and we believe we have achieved that, though the solution is not final yet. In the next few days I think you'll be very pleased to see the solution we've reached on pension obligations, both past and future, in terms of our employees.

Mr. Chairman, that's my statement.

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Michael Chong

Thank you very much, Mr. Paterson.

We'll have about an hour and 20 minutes of questions and comments from members of the committee.

We'll begin with Monsieur Coderre.

9:40 a.m.

Liberal

Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to share my time with my colleague, Marcel Proulx, who is directly affected, because of the region involved.

Mr. Paterson, two things are of interest to me. Today, you will be hearing the tapes: the government will tell you that it has done so much for the industry, even though it has announced the same $100 million five times now. In my case, there are two things that interest me: first of all, the fate of the workers, and second, the future of the industry. Without workers, there is no industry.

I know that, in a way, you are between a rock and a hard place. The government has abandoned you. At the same time, I don't understand how you quickly found the money to pay bonuses to your senior management—we are talking about $6 million—while we wait for good news soon regarding the fate of the workers, in terms of their pensions and so on. I would like you to explain why money is available more quickly for bonuses.

At the same time, do you think that more should have been done—I know the answer, but I would like to hear it from you—for example, loan guarantees? Unlike the Conservatives, I believe we should be investing in industry and that this is not violation of the Softwood Lumber Agreement. Even the government's lawyers are saying that it is not a violation of that agreement. So, someone is being taken for a ride here, and I think it's the guys sitting over there and all the women who have lost their jobs. They are the people I am interested in today.

9:40 a.m.

Voices

Hear, hear!

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Michael Chong

Order.

9:40 a.m.

Liberal

Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC

Alors--

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Michael Chong

Mr. Coderre, I have the floor.

I'd ask members of the public to restrain themselves. This is a parliamentary committee hearing, and there are people who are struggling to hear the testimony and the questions and comments from members, so please treat this as such. In the interests of everybody getting a full hearing on both sides, please ensure that you don't cause any further disruptions to the committee, or else I'll have to ask security to clear the public galleries here.

Go ahead, Mr. Coderre.

9:40 a.m.

Liberal

Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC

Mr. Paterson, what should the government have done to prevent the closure of the Dolbeau-Mistassini and Gatineau plants which, in my opinion, deserve to remain open?

I would also like you to explain why this $6 million bonus should be given to senior management. Is it because you are afraid to lose that money as part of your restructuring plan? You may be afraid of losing senior managers, but I am afraid of losing workers. I would like them to also receive some help.

Could you respond briefly? After that, my friend, Marcel Proulx, will have a question for you.

9:40 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, AbitibiBowater Inc.

David Paterson

Thank you.

I think there were several questions in there. I'll try to answer each one, and if I miss one, please re-ask the question.

I think we started with the question about the future of the workers and the future of the industry, and you asked me to start with the future of the workers. I think the reality, as I've mentioned, is that in our primary products--and I'll include newsprint in the overall printing and writing sector, which has been a very traditional part of the Canadian industry's product portfolio--we're facing long-term continuing demand destruction as electronic media erodes our customer base.

So if I have to say what we need to do in terms of the workers, we need to ensure that our company as well as all companies in Canada have a viable business model and plan so we can meet our obligations. At the same time, we have to begin to make new products, and we have to face the fact that we may need to help workers be redirected to new or different industries within their regions. I think it's beyond our control to stop the decline in consumption of our primary products. That's just something we all have to deal with. In the case of the worker, I think we need to be up front and open and discuss those matters. Where we don't have sustainable businesses, we need to help workers find new employment.

In our case, as AbitibiBowater, we've offered and continued to offer jobs in other facilities that are still operating in the company. I believe we've had over 200 hourly employees relocate to new positions within the company, and those positions are still available.

With regard to the industry and government policy, I think that is a strategic issue. I think the governments...and I talk about “governments” in Canada because we interact more, quite frankly, with provincial governments because of the issues related to the natural resources of water and timber.

I would say that Canada would be well served by having an industrial policy strategy for the forest products industry. We don't have a clear path forward, either as producers or as governments. So if I wanted to encourage this committee and governments to think about something, it would be that: how do we create a new strategy for Canada?

9:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Michael Chong

Thank you, Mr. Paterson.

I think Monsieur Proulx has a question for you as well.

Go ahead.

9:45 a.m.

Liberal

Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, Mr. Paterson.

In 2005, the Liberal government implemented a $1.6 billion plan to revitalize the forest industry, but the Conservative government subsequently cancelled it. The Conservative government couldn't care less about the forest industry. The Bloc Québécois can't do anything about it. You are right: Quebec and Canada deserve a federal government whose position is absolutely clear, in order to know what to expect.

In response to a question from my colleague, the Hon. Denis Coderre, you said that employees must be redirected to other industries. I know that, in the case of the Gatineau plant, the restructuring committee is currently carrying out a study. I would say that your financial participation in that regard is minimal. Do you consider it to be a bogus study or are you sincere and in good faith when you say that you want to help the plant find a new vocation? These studies require funding. How much can you put in to help the plant find a new vocation and save these peoples' jobs?

The former town of Gatineau Mills revolved around the plant which you now own. Now you are abandoning, not only the workers, but also much of the new City of Gatineau, something we consider unacceptable.

Can you tell us that you will be investing more money, more energy and more resources with a view to finding solutions for these workers?

9:45 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, AbitibiBowater Inc.

David Paterson

Thank you.

Specifically with regard to Gatineau, yes, we've committed to fund the study, and we're participating in the study. As we all know, Gatineau is a wonderful site. It's strategically well located right across the river here. It's been an industrial site for a long time. We feel that as a newsprint site it is no longer competitive. We can discuss that issue, but ultimately we are committed to participate and to fund the study.

In answer to your other sub-question, as part of our discussions with the Province of Quebec we are committing to put additional resources toward the issues you described--worker retraining and other things--but on a provincial level. We will make a commitment as part of our agreement with the Province of Quebec.

9:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Michael Chong

Thank you, Mr. Proulx.

Thank you Mr. Paterson.

Mr. Bouchard, please.

9:45 a.m.

Bloc

Robert Bouchard Bloc Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Good morning, Mr. Paterson and Mr. Robertson.

We are here today to question AbitibiBowater about its financial restructuring plan and the best way of helping a community like Dolbeau-Mistassini to implement its plan to reopen its paper mill based on a unique initiative in Quebec for an integrated forestry complex.

I am troubled by the lack of respect and determination demonstrated by AbitibiBowater with respect to those communities that are, or will be, affected by permanent closures of paper mills and sawmills in Quebec. We understand that AbitibiBowater has to survive in order to keep its plants operating. However, I do question its intentions and its approach, given that AbitibiBowater is now shutting down paper mills and sawmills that it no longer wants, simply abandoning these single industry communities which have always been loyal to the industry.

Mr. Paterson, the former Manager of the Dolbeau-Mistassini paper mill has said that the mill was profitable. The resource is located close by. The workers cooperated, as did the community. So, why did you decide to shut down the Dolbeau-Mistassini mill?

9:50 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, AbitibiBowater Inc.

David Paterson

Specifically with regard to the Dolbeau decision, we have a major issue there, which is related to the cogeneration facility on the site. As you know--you talked about an integrated facility--we do not own the steam facility at that site. It's part of Boralex. That contract was very disadvantageous to the company, and we worked hard, along with Boralex, to try to find a new solution.

Under the terms of CCAA, we are allowed to repudiate that contract, which we did. Once we repudiated the contract, Boralex was no longer going to supply us with steam, so, unfortunately, until that matter is resolved, Dolbeau is caught in that debate.

The facility itself, under the right energy deal, is a competitive facility and we would re-examine it, but we are not going to be successful there unless we have the proper energy agreement either through acquisition of the energy island, which we discussed with Boralex, or through a new contract, which we have discussed. At this date neither of those has been accomplished.

9:50 a.m.

Bloc

Robert Bouchard Bloc Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC

Mr. Paterson, if you sell a plant like the Dolbeau-Mistassini paper mill, or even the one in Gatineau, you will demand a non-competition clause, according to what we have been told. Could you explain the terms and conditions of that clause?

9:50 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, AbitibiBowater Inc.

David Paterson

We've had no offers on either facility, but the issue for us as a company is that if the capacity remains in newsprint or supercalendered papers, that will lead to further price erosion, we believe, and further pressure on the sustainability of the company. So our position in both cases is that we will work with anyone who wishes to come and buy, as long as they don't compete with us. The duration issue I haven't addressed yet.

9:50 a.m.

Bloc

Robert Bouchard Bloc Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC

Mr. Paterson, do you not think that demanding a non-competition clause is an excessive measure that will stifle the economic future of communities like Dolbeau-Mistassini, and even Gatineau?

9:50 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, AbitibiBowater Inc.

David Paterson

Well, if the assets aren't sold or put back into production, clearly the local communities suffer. But ultimately my responsibility is to worry about the 20,000 retirees and the 8,000 active employees, and our vendors and creditors.

I have to look at the big picture, and as difficult as that may be, if we do not have adequate pricing and demand for our products and we can't meet our obligations as a company, then the whole thing fails. So I worry ultimately about the 28,000 Canadian retirees and employees who are currently part of the company.

9:50 a.m.

Bloc

Robert Bouchard Bloc Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC

Mr. Paterson, I'm sure you understand that, as Members of Parliament, we cannot endorse your financial restructuring plan without knowing the details of your operational plan.

As President, are you prepared to pledge today to table the production and operations plan for your plants and sawmills, including the ones in Quebec?

9:50 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, AbitibiBowater Inc.

David Paterson

Well, not only Quebec, but the entire Canadian and U.S and our global footprint are part of our business plan, and we'd be glad to provide this in the detail to the committee. The business plan discusses which facilities will operate and which grades we'll make, and our forecasts for prices and buy-ins. We'd certainly be happy to provide that to the committee.

9:55 a.m.

Bloc

Robert Bouchard Bloc Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC

I would like to ask one final question.

Mr. Paterson, you are shutting down plants and sawmills. I guess it could be said that you have too much wood.

Are you prepared to give your timber rights for these forests back to the Government of Quebec, so that it can use them to benefit communities in the region?

9:55 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, AbitibiBowater Inc.

David Paterson

We're having those discussions with all provincial governments. As we all know, in both Quebec and Ontario, which are our primary operating areas, the management of the wood resource is about to change through governmental policy. We have participated in those debates, and we support those debates.

In the case of Quebec, all companies in Quebec will be giving up quota, in essence, under the new scheme, and there will be more of a free market component to wood in Quebec under the governmental plan. We support that plan.

So the answer to your question is, yes, we support providing the resource to those who wish to use it, if those people come forward. We will not fight that.

9:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Michael Chong

Thank you, Mr. Bouchard.

Thank you, Mr. Paterson.

Mr. Wallace.