Evidence of meeting #2 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was goods.
A video is available from Parliament.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC
I don't have any comment on that, but I know that Minister Blaney would be more than glad to appear and discuss that issue with you.
3:55 p.m.
NDP
Chris Charlton NDP Hamilton Mountain, ON
Mr. Chair, can I ask for clarification?
Do I need to introduce a motion to ask Minister Blaney to appear, in light of the Minister's comments, or is he happy to do that?
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC
You can have a motion and invite whoever you want.
3:55 p.m.
NDP
Chris Charlton NDP Hamilton Mountain, ON
Can I move a motion now, or do you need notice for that? How would you like me to proceed?
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
If you want to move a motion, you can. I don't think there's any resistance at all in that regard. I think, just simply, he got called away at a meeting, so we can just reschedule.
3:55 p.m.
NDP
Chris Charlton NDP Hamilton Mountain, ON
In that case, may I move a motion that the committee request Minister Blaney to appear?
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
November 4th, 2013 / 3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Phil McColeman Conservative Brant, ON
Thank you, Minister, for being here, and for moving forward on something that we were about to aggressively move forward on. Hopefully, we can expedite this in a way that we can protect the public from such things as you brought today.
I have two lines of questioning. Perhaps it goes to one of the other witnesses here. You held up the circuit breaker; that's my background, it's in construction. From those of you who are currently in the enforcement business, is there a great amount of counterfeit product hitting the market, posing a real safety problem to the building of new construction?
3:55 p.m.
Supt Eric Slinn
I can't speak specifically to the links between counterfeit goods and the construction industry. We're more concerned—and this perhaps goes to the construction industry—with the safety of products right across the gamut. Anything that can potentially harm the public, anything that puts public safety in jeopardy, whether it be construction goods, or apparel, or toothpaste, would be a focus for us, but I can't make those direct linkages for you.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Phil McColeman Conservative Brant, ON
Maybe another way to approach this is to ask this question, which I couldn't help but write down while thinking about this. Could you give us a sense of how deep the investigations go?
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
3:55 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Industry
I just wanted to address the issue of trends and talk a little more broadly about some of the trends in counterfeiting.
As you all know, counterfeiting used to be confined primarily to luxury goods—I think that's the sense here in Canada and in many countries—handbags, sunglasses, and clothing. While these are certainly still being copied, counterfeiting has expanded into a wide array of industries, including car parts, food and beverages, electrical components, toys, and electronics, to name a few. In short, really all types of goods are being counterfeited today.
I also want to raise the fact that there's a trend away from bulk or container shipments and towards small packets. This is due to e-commerce, electronic commerce, and the counterfeiter's ability to sell directly to customers. That's another trend that seems to be happening as we move forward on this.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Phil McColeman Conservative Brant, ON
That is a good segue into the question I had just asked. Could any of you give us a sense of how deep an investigation goes? It really starts out in a production facility, where the good is “knocked off”, where it's made. Then it moves on to distribution. Someone decides to get involved in distributing this kind of material. That whole chain of events, that value chain, happens. When you've intercepted something, how deep has the investigation been? How much further will it go?
4 p.m.
Supt Eric Slinn
It's not unlike any other criminal investigation that we partake in. We go as deep as we can to collect the necessary evidence to bring it before the courts. It would really depend on a host of factors. If the investigation were international in scope we would have to rely on our international partners to obtain evidence. We would have to use the MLAT process. Is it a domestic investigation? What's the product? Are we involved with multiple other agencies? It's a complicated question. But it gets the same attention as any investigation.
If I can link it to organized crime-type investigations, those are much more in-depth; they require more work, and sometimes more resources are required to get into those large-scale organized crime investigations.
4 p.m.
Conservative
Phil McColeman Conservative Brant, ON
Do you work with international police forces and other investigators from around the world in places where these goods are coming from? I would make the presumption that most of these are coming from offshore. Am I correct in assuming that?
4 p.m.
Supt Eric Slinn
I think that's fair to say. The RCMP has liaison officers posted around the world. We leverage those liaison officers to build relationships with foreign law enforcement so that we're in a better position to collect the intelligence in support of operations back here at home.
4 p.m.
Conservative
Phil McColeman Conservative Brant, ON
Whenever I cross the border—and I go frequently in and out of the United States—I see the kind of scanning equipment that exists, the new scanning equipment that is in place for our border security, and the enhanced technologies that people have. Do those play a major role in providing you with the tools you need?
4 p.m.
Vice-President, Operations Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
They do. We leverage that technology but also rely on the training we provide our officers in detecting counterfeit goods. Along with the RCMP we leverage the expertise that is out there from the rights holders and also from other border management organizations in the world that have intellectual property rights legislation. We also build on their expertise.
4 p.m.
Conservative
4 p.m.
Conservative
Phil McColeman Conservative Brant, ON
Minister, you mentioned that generally stakeholders have been very supportive of this bill coming forward. Can you elaborate a little more on that in terms of specific types of industries? I know that in your comments you made reference to industry associations. Has there been any contact from any one particular sector of our economy that stands out in your mind?
4 p.m.
Conservative
James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC
Just this morning, as a matter of fact, I was at a meeting in Toronto with Jayson Myers of the Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters. We were talking about the Canada-Europe trade agreement and then had a side conversation. I said that I was coming here later today, and he was very enthusiastic about it, because it's going to become an increasingly important challenge that we tackle as we go to over a billion people on the planet now with whom we have a liberalized trade agreement.
We've gone from 14 to 42 countries with which we have an FTA now. It's going to be incredibly important that we protect the interests of Canadian businesses and also protect families from those dangerous and counterfeit goods that are coming in from certain parts of the planet and are becoming a source of financial infrastructure for organized crime. All these are real threats and real problems, and they undermine Canadian firms and from time to time jeopardize public safety.
As I said, I have a long list. These are all organizations that represent many individual firms and all these—