Industry Committee on May 7th, 2014

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Sorry, Mr. Côté.

We have another point of order.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

It's a point of order and a point of clarification. We had intended all along to only meet today for an hour, and that's exactly what we're doing.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Are you looking to speak on the same point, Mr. Masse?

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Yes.

If we want to meet longer, we can do that. If you would like to meet longer, we can meet longer. But your own member just suggested that our time was constrained by House of Commons business, which is not true. We have complete control of the committee and with consent can meet as long as we'd like.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you, Mr. Masse.

I'll hear Madam Bateman now.

No? Okay, we'll hear Mr. Warawa.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Mr. Chair, this committee meets from 3:30 p.m. to 5:30—we have slotted in that time in each of our schedules and we made that commitment—every Monday and Wednesday. We decided that there was consensus to meet today from 3:30 p.m to 4:30.

We could have met until 5:30. We have another 45 minutes until it's 5:30, so if we had not had the delaying tactics from the NDP in Parliament, we could have met for much longer. If the committee had suggested we needed to meet longer, I would have been willing and I'm sure my colleagues on this side would have been willing to meet longer and still end at 5:30.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

This is really gravitating into a debate, and we're going to need to make a ruling shortly.

I'll hear Mr. Morin on the same point.

[Dany Morin, NDP, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Yes, exactly. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to remind my honourable colleague across the way that it was his own government that forced us to vote on the matter. Had it not done that, the committee could have met at its normally scheduled time.

I think everyone here planned to meet during the committee's usual time slot until the Conservative government decided to force a vote on the matter today. So I think it's rather intellectually dishonest to blame us for the delay. The NDP were not the ones who asked for a vote a few minutes ago.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

I think we have exhausted that point.

Mr. Côté, please continue.

[Raymond Côté, NDP, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Frenette, with respect to clause 184, you said in your presentation, and I quote: “Normally the transfer of assets from a crown corporation would need to comply with rules of the Financial Administration Act.”

Why do those rules not apply to the dissolution of the ECBC, under clause 184 of the bill?

[Denise Frenette]

Clause 184 was created to facilitate the transaction. In order for a crown corporation to transfer assets, an order in council is needed. This clause will making the transfer easier. Once the bill receives royal assent, the assets will automatically be transferred, without the need for an order in council.

[Raymond Côté, NDP, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

So it provides a shortcut allowing the government to skip steps and fix things it doesn't like quickly.

Bill C-31 does away with the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Board, made up of representatives from each of the Atlantic provinces.

How do you plan to fill the hole that the board's elimination will leave? Can you give us any assurance that ACOA will have genuine regional representation?

[Denise Frenette]

To answer that, I would have to go back to the creation of the advisory board. When the agency was created in 1987, it really needed a systematic approach to seek out feedback from people outside the public service. Things have changed since then. Now, we regularly organize consultations that are a bit like round tables. We hold meetings with all the stakeholders, be they senior executives at the agency or the minister. We have a lot of other mechanisms in place to obtain community feedback on various issues. And that really gives us a broader perspective than we can get through the advisory board.

I would also like to point out that the agency is quite decentralized and has a strong presence in the communities. Our consultation mechanisms are quite extensive.

Lastly, I would say that the agency has really matured from the time it was created, in terms of its ability to develop policies and carry out research internally.

[Raymond Côté, NDP, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Still, the board served as a watchdog, often criticizing blatant patronage appointments. Now there won't be any such safeguard in place.

Appointments that come to mind are those of people like Kevin MacAdam, a former provincial Conservative minister under Premier Pat Binns. Patrick Dorsey and Kent Estabrooks lost their ability to hire staff following Mr. MacAdam's appointment.

No safeguards whatsoever will remain. What assurance do we have that there won't be any favouritism, now that no one is performing the watchdog function the board used to?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

I'm sorry, that's all the time we have. We're actually over time now. You may be able to respond to that in somebody else's question.

If I can get the consent of the committee.... Because of the delay, Mr. Cuzner has a responsibility he needs to attend to. All I'm doing is switching spots in the rotation, if that's okay with the committee.

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Go ahead, Mr. Cuzner, for five minutes.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thank you. I wonder whether our fast voting had anything to do with that collegial gesture by the government.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thanks, we appreciate it.

Ms. Frenette, thanks so much for your comments. I have three questions I'd like to get in, if I can.

Since 2010, ECBC has paid just shy of $250,000 for outside lawyers to pursue 14 appeals against employees under the compassionate disability benefit. ECBC has lost all 14 cases.

Will it be the responsibility of ACOA or of Public Works and Government Services to decide whether or not to continue to pursue this line of appeals? The compassionate disability benefit was a DEVCO program.

[Denise Frenette]

The HR obligations resulting from DEVCO operations will be transferred to Public Works and Government Services. They would be managing and making decisions on the future of these responsibilities.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

So it will be Public Works and Government Services that will decide whether or not they want to continue to pursue using the public dollars against the former coal miners, you would think.

[Denise Frenette]

They're responsible for managing, yes.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

With regard to clause 183, current ECBC vice-president John Lynn took personal leave last June. He continues to draw a salary of over $160,000 a year, plus he continues to have the company SUV and full access to the credit card.

Will his position, salary, and benefits continue after this legislation is passed?

[Denise Frenette]

The legislation provides for the termination of the CEO appointment, so he will no longer be employed when the bill receives royal assent.