Evidence of meeting #31 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was investments.

A video is available from Parliament.

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Kelly Gillis  Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Spectrum, Information Technologies and Telecommunications, Department of Industry
Lisa Setlakwe  Executive Director, Industrial Technologies Office, Department of Industry
John Knubley  Deputy Minister, Department of Industry
Philip Jennings  Assistant Deputy Minister, Industry Sector, Department of Industry
David Enns  Chief Financial Officer, Corporate Management Sector , Department of Industry

9:30 a.m.

Conservative

James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC

It's not quite true. As I said in my opening comments, Ford, for example, is adding a thousand jobs. That's above and beyond, by the way, the thousand jobs that were expected to be created as a result of project northern star in Oakville, so a thousand jobs above and beyond that.

Certainly we have some challenges elsewhere. But Ontario is the second largest vehicle-producing jurisdiction in North America, behind only Michigan, with five OEMs and a strong and established cluster of vehicle and parts suppliers. I can tell you we are looking at policies.

I know the AUTO21 group has come forward. I think you, Brian and others have met with them about having policies that would support not just the bigs but also the entire supply chain to ensure that manufacturing is happening across the entirety of the auto footprint in Ontario. We are looking at policies, I can tell you, about how to shift and move forward to support the entirety of the supply chain in the auto sector.

If you look at everything we're doing, the numbers, the sales figures, the export numbers, and what Chrysler, GM, Ford, and others are all saying about the opportunities in Canada because of the Canada-Europe free trade agreement, about using Canada as a launching pad to export their products that are being manufactured in Ontario to the European market—500 million customers for auto parts and cars that are assembled in Ontario—this is a real opportunity for Canada, I think. It gives us a bright horizon to look forward to.

9:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Sweet

Thank you, Minister.

Ms. Bateman for five minutes.

December 4th, 2014 / 9:30 a.m.

Conservative

Joyce Bateman Conservative Winnipeg South Centre, MB

Thank you, Minister Moore, for making time to be here with us this morning. It's very much appreciated.

In the context of the estimates, you have shown real leadership and real initiative in breaking down internal trade barriers in this country of ours. On reflection, you've probably shown initiative and true leadership on every file you've ever touched, but this is the one I would like you to expand on. Please give us an update on the progress that has been made on this initiative, of course in the context of the estimates.

Thank you.

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC

Sure. Within the context of estimates, if the Canadian economy grows, the estimates will be healthier.

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

Joyce Bateman Conservative Winnipeg South Centre, MB

Exactly.

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC

Therefore, let me talk about internal free trade.

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

Joyce Bateman Conservative Winnipeg South Centre, MB

Perfect. We're working on that.

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC

This has been a nagging issue for a long time. There's nothing new about this. Frankly, saying it's been a nagging issue for a long time understates it.

As we look at the great picture up there on the wall in front of us, you know that the Quebec conference of 1864 led to the Charlottetown conference which then led to Confederation in 1867. We're looking at the Fathers of Confederation right here in this beautiful painting.

The job of Confederation is not done, in my view. We always need to remind ourselves that at the time Confederation, there were four provinces that came together and created a federal government. It wasn't a federal government that created provinces and dispersed powers. They created the federal government. We live in one of the most decentralized constitutional structures in the world. It shows itself in a lot of very good ways, but also in a lot of challenging ways.

When I say the job of Confederation is not done, I mean that we allow more economic activity, east and west within Canada, for Americans, for South Koreans soon, and for Europeans ultimately when CETA is brought into force than we allow for Canadians to have access to the Canadian marketplace east and west. I'll give you an example: government procurement. All provinces and territories, which is to say NDP, Liberal, and Conservative provincial governments all across Canada have consented and agreed to the Canada-Europe free trade agreement.

Within the Canada-Europe free trade agreement are included provisions that allow for Canadians to have access to government procurement all throughout Europe. It's a fantastic and brilliant opportunity for a country of 35 million people to have access to a 500-million-person market and all the government contracts at the national, state, and local levels all across Europe. It's a great opportunity for Canada. But the inverse is true. The Europeans have access to government contracts at the national, state, provincial-territorial, and local levels within Canada.

The issue is, Canadians don't have access to Canadian government contracts at all levels of the Canadian economy. Therefore, for example, a young person who lives in Brussels who might have a brilliant idea for a mobile app for the collection of parking fees can sell that to governments within Belgium, within France, within Germany, and have access to those markets and government contracts. They can sell it to Brandon. They can sell it to Lethbridge. They can sell it to Vancouver. They can sell it to Sept-Îles, Quebec. But a kid from Brandon, Manitoba can't sell it to Saskatoon, Vancouver, or Sept-Îles, Quebec. We're allowing more market access for Europeans and Americans than we're allowing for Canadians to have access to the Canadian marketplace, and that needs to change.

I've been beating this drum for almost a year now trying to take advantage of the political fact that in Canada we have a federalist government in the province of Quebec, we have a government that's been re-elected in the province of Ontario that has worked very well with the Government of Canada on some files including Canada-U.S. trade access, the beyond borders agreement, and winning the Detroit-Windsor border crossing, and we have a good working relationship with Minister Duguid on this file. We have elected governments in all parts of the country now—all parts of the country—that are willing and prepared to have a conversation about this.

I've been beating this drum now for almost a year, and we got the subject of internal free trade reform on the top of the agenda at the Council of the Federation this past summer. It was great news that the provinces agreed to have four premiers—McNeil, Wall, Wynne, and Couillard—to sit on a committee as a subcommittee of the Council of the Federation and to come back to the council with a brand new internal free trade agreement that all of them will consent to, of course with the Government of Canada as well.

We've taken a number of steps in previous budgets. We will have new items in next year's budget as well that will try to grease the skids towards more forward progress on the issue of internal free trade.

I'm very proud to be beating the drum and making noise and to be working cooperatively with again, the NDP, Liberal, and Conservative provincial governments all with the goal of making the Canadian economy more efficient so we have more trade opportunities within Canada.

I can point to a number of examples, a number of goods and products. I mean the second largest country in the world in size and the 37th largest in population terms is Canada, but we don't have national standards east and west on transportation. We don't have national standards on fuel. We don't have national standards and agreed-to regulations on tires for trucks, which is the largest industry in Canada for employment. For getting goods east and west, we don't have national standards on that.

We're on the cusp of our 150th birthday and we still don't have cooperation and agreement on these standards. It's ridiculous, and we need to do better. I'm going to keep driving progress forward, and I'm confident we'll get there.

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Sweet

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Ms. Bateman. That was all the time.

Now, we go to Mr. Masse.

9:40 a.m.

NDP

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

Thank you, Mr. Minister, for being here today.

I'm glad you talked about the Windsor-Detroit border crossing. It's very important. Unfortunately, your government signed an agreement that requires us to pay, even on the Detroit side. So as we speak here right now we're actually buying land in Detroit and we'll have to build a customs plaza for them because of the agreement that was signed, with no money coming from Michigan or Washington.

I do want to talk about auto, though. You talked about the thousand jobs that are going to Oakville, but we lost over 1,500 jobs that could actually have gone to Windsor. I asked the Library of Parliament to do research—I commissioned them; they're independent—on who has a national auto strategy. That's the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Japan, the Republic of Korea, Australia, Sweden, Mexico, China, India, Malaysia, and Nigeria.

Most recently, your government was in negotiations with Ford, and your member for Essex said this:

Ford Canada owes Windsor an explanation. They should break their silence and inform Windsor of their decision, and explain why they wouldn't offer enough in exchange for what would have been historic federal and provincial support.

So I ask you, do you agree with the member for Essex? What was that federal and provincial support in terms of the Ford investment that was actually going to come to Windsor, but eventually was negotiated in public on the front pages of papers?

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC

Brian, with respect, you're just wrong. You're just wrong. You should talk to Jerry Dias, whom I met with on Monday, who thanked our officials—

9:40 a.m.

NDP

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

I'm not wrong. I'm asking you about your member for Essex and what he said—

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC

No, no, you're—

9:40 a.m.

NDP

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

—and I'm asking you whether you agree with him. I don't know how I can be wrong, because I'm asking you what you offered provincially, but more important, federally, to Ford for this investment in Canada. The public has a right to know what you offered in terms of an incentive to bring this to Canada—

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC

Right.

9:40 a.m.

NDP

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

—and to Windsor in particular.

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC

With respect, Brian, you're wrong in that you say the investment was going to come and we botched it. That's not true. It's factually not true, and nobody who understands this file and who was actually at the table as part of the conversations will double-down on your assessment, including Jerry Dias. By the way, as you know, he is no friend of the government in a partisan way, and is going to be quite aggressive about trying to defeat our government in the next campaign. Monday of last week CAPC, the Canadian Automotive Partnership Council, thanked me in front of the entire group for the leadership that my staff and my officials provided in order to try to land this investment.

Brian, I agree—

9:40 a.m.

NDP

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

All I'm asking you is what you offered. I'm not even being critical.

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC

If you want an answer to the question, you're going to have to actually let me finish my sentence. I was going to get to your question, to your point of, do I agree with Jeff Watson. Sure. Should Ford come forward and explain what it is that's being offered in Mexico that isn't being offered in Canada? Sure. We know, for example, in the United States, in Alabama, in South Carolina, in Tennessee, Kentucky, and other places, what's being offered frankly is something that would be fiscally irresponsible for us to try to match as a government. But what's being offered in Mexico is underneath the cloak of secrecy, and we don't know. Ford is not really in a position to completely obliterate their capacity to have a negotiating leverage in order to get good value for their firm.

By the way, Brian, I have to say, negotiating 101, it's kind of not a good idea for the Government of Canada to completely expose how far we're prepared to go in order to draw investments into Canada—

9:40 a.m.

NDP

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

Well, it's done because you completely—

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC

—because it would obliterate all of our leverage to get good value investments to Canada.

9:40 a.m.

NDP

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

It's done now—

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC

If you want us to completely and literally—

9:40 a.m.

NDP

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

—so why don't you come forward and divulge what you can?

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC

There's no union, not one single union in this country that would completely open up their books and say, “Here's as far as we're prepared to go in order to land—”