Evidence of meeting #105 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was meeting.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:40 a.m.
O.C., As an Individual
That's correct.
The people who declared the conflict.... The project would be at the board level. The vice-president of investments would be making a recommendation. Those people would leave. We would all leave that meeting when that discussion happened and that decision was made.
Then we'd be invited back to come in once the decision was made. We wouldn't know what that decision was until the SDTC announced those decisions the next day.
11:40 a.m.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
That's fair enough.
Do you know, from all those decisions of conflict, how many were refused and how many were granted to members who had conflict during your time at process there?
11:40 a.m.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
I mean just in general... Maybe I'll pass that question to the chairs. Maybe we can find out how many conflicts of interest the boards members declared that were either accepted or rejected from the process.
I appreciate your testimony today. Thank you.
11:45 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound
Thank you, Mr. Masse.
Your question is duly noted and will be passed to SDTC.
Mr. Barrett, you now have the floor for five minutes.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Thank you, Chair.
During your opening statement, you said that all companies were treated equally in their payments through your COVID scheme in 2020 and 2021, but some companies received a 5% increase in funding, and others received a 10% increase in funding.
That seems to me to be unequal, but it also demonstrates that your opening statement is factually incorrect. This decision that was taken to increase that funding to those companies benefited you in a very real way. Not only did you move the motion; you voted in favour of it, and all of the votes taken were unanimous.
How long were these meetings? Concerning the meeting of March 23, 2020, when you voted to give yourself, your company, $111,485, how long was that meeting in duration?
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
I'm happy to jog your memory with the minutes. It was one hour.
Concerning the meeting of Tuesday, March 9, 2021, when you voted to your benefit $106,176, how long was that meeting?
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
I do. It was an hour.
In what amounts to a lunch break for most people, you benefited $111,485 in one occurrence, and then, a year later, in an equal amount of time, another lunch break, you voted to your benefit $106,176.
Is it still your contention that, though some companies were given a 5% increase and others a 10% increase, all companies were treated equally?
11:45 a.m.
O.C., As an Individual
At the first round, it was 5% across the board, honourable member.
I think, in the second round, the management team identified some companies in their analysis and developed these milestones that indicated that, if they could be given a little more money, 10%, that would help accelerate and sustain those businesses. It was work done internally.
I want to clarify one thing. The project that NRStor was involved with, the Goderich project, got 5% each time. I want to make sure of that.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
That was not your testimony. You testified that they were all treated equally, but 5% and 10% are not equal. Neither was the amount of money that was paid out.
There are 229 companies in the SDTC portfolio, according to your testimony at the ethics committee. The RCGT report sampled only 22 companies and found $40 million in misappropriated funds. The whistle-blower who testified identified up to $150 million in misappropriated funds.
Are you confident that Canada's Auditor General will find that there were $0 in misappropriated funds at the $1-billion green slush fund?
11:45 a.m.
O.C., As an Individual
I think the Auditor General will find that the processes and procedures and discipline that we have in investing in the clean-tech sector are second to none.
As a matter of fact, that due diligence done by SDTC is often used by BDC, EDC and other organizations in Ottawa, because of the level of excellent work they do. There are 80 people who work there, who really understand this area of business—the clean-tech sector. They're experts—
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
I have less than a minute left, Madam.
Your answer was not that they would find zero dollars. You testified that you followed all ethics rules, that you've been following the highest standard.
Have you been cleared of having violated the ethics act by the non-partisan Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner?
If so, I'd be interested to hear that. If not, how can you be sure that you didn't break ethics laws?
11:45 a.m.
O.C., As an Individual
If you're referring to the ethics investigation that is going on today for me, that is under way. We're in the process of reviewing that, and—
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
You can't be sure that you didn't break ethics laws.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
The commissioner remains unsure, or you would have been cleared formally. Is that right?
11:50 a.m.
O.C., As an Individual
The application hasn't been received by the commissioner yet. I'm putting together the documentation to give that assurance and to have that discussion happen, but no, that has not happened.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound
Thank you, Mr. Barrett and Ms. Verschuren.
I will now give the floor to Ms. Lapointe.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Viviane LaPointe Liberal Sudbury, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you for being here, Ms. Verschuren.
On Tuesday, when you were before the committee, you mentioned that you remained with SDTC until December 1, and you did so in order to implement the recommendations contained in their action plan from the fact-finding mission.
Can you please tell this committee how SDTC is addressing the issues raised, and about the work that is being done on the recommendations?
11:50 a.m.
O.C., As an Individual
Yes. I'm very proud of the work that SDTC has done since the fact-finding mission. I think the report was provided to us on October 4.
There were areas that we absolutely worked hard on to get greater discipline in terms of conflict of interest reporting, conflict of interest definition.... We have an ethics adviser who is working with the team now.
All of those new procedures throughout the organization have been updated. They have been approved by the board of directors, and they have now been delivered to ISED. From the project review committee to the distribution of funds, everything was looked at.
What we did, which I think is really proactive, is that we went through all of the areas of SDTC to make sure that we had the top procedures and policies in place. Good documentation of all of this and a real understanding of where the organization needs to improve and execute is happening today.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Viviane LaPointe Liberal Sudbury, ON
Thank you.
Can you tell the committee how the organization's human resources and ethics policies are being updated? I'd like to get some good details on both of those fronts.
11:50 a.m.
O.C., As an Individual
Yes.
As I mentioned, we now have access to an ethics adviser, who is really helping us develop all the conflict of interest procedures, really tightening them up, making sure that the documentation clearly indicates what's happening there.
In terms of the HR area, the hiring, all issues associated with good governance in HR have been reviewed and put together in a clear policy, as well as procedures and succession planning, performance reviews—everything. Really, there was a lot of detailed work, and the SDTC team really put their heads down and worked to get it done.
On November 30, my last day, I met with the board. We spent the day going through all the changes we're proposing, and the next day we presented it to the government.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Viviane LaPointe Liberal Sudbury, ON
Can you tell me how the board was being guided in this work?
When you say that you've reviewed and you're implementing some of these new frameworks, are you looking at best practices? Are you receiving external expertise to help guide the board?