Industry Committee on Feb. 13th, 2023

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Lemire.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you.

Mr. Masse, the floor is yours.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you again, Mr. Minister.

I'm glad you said that you are the regulator a couple of times. The committee's done some really good work here on the Shaw-Rogers situation. As you decide that, though, what hasn't taken place is.... There hasn't been regulator support from the government on consumer issues in terms of pricing. Australia and other countries have moved on that. Why haven't you used your position to influence regulation on pricing? That is something that we can do.

Consumers—not only just in terms of, you'd think, individuals but also in terms of companies, small and medium-sized businesses—are paying through the nose for a Canadian public asset. That's what the spectrum is. It's also the investment we've made with billions of dollars of subsidies. Why not regulate some of the pricing that's taking place? I think it's time.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I think you'll be happy because I said, at the time, that I would direct the CRTC with a new policy directive. That policy is coming up, I think, as we speak, Mr. Masse. You'll see that I've directed the CRTC with a new policy directive. I think it's the first one in many years that puts competition and price at the centre of that directive, so with regard to your point, we are doing that.

I'm like you, Mr. Masse. As you know, I want to reduce prices for Canadians. That's why I've used all the tools at my disposal. If Parliament were to give me more tools, I'd be happy to use them to make sure that we bring down prices. At a time when people are struggling in every way, with the price of groceries and the bills they receive, everything I can do....

Like you said, I have been pushing, you'll remember, with the Competition Bureau, asking them to start an investigation on groceries to make sure there were no harmful practices. Every time I have regulatory powers, you have seen me using them to their full extent to protect Canadian taxpayers and Canadian consumers.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Don't get me started on the grocery stuff this time because I only have, probably, 30 seconds to go.

I do want to go back, though. If you're going to wait for the CRTC, why not act in the interim, at least, or is there a deadline for that action? It's almost negligent at this point in terms of the pricing we actually have versus this fact that it's a Canadian public asset at the end of the day. What's the plan? How long will it take for the CRTC to come back? Why not act in the interim if that's the case?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I think we've been acting because the tool that I have—and Mr. Masse, you're an experienced member of Parliament—is policy direction to the CRTC. I don't have that legal power, as the regulator. I have powers with respect to spectrum. I don't have power when it comes to the elements you mentioned, so that's why. My tool is to give policy direction to the CRTC. That's what I've been doing. This is going to be issued, I think, momentarily, so you'll see that.

I think we have the same interest, and colleagues on the other side do as well. We want to see better prices and more competition. We want to see innovation in the sector. I'm using every tool at my disposal to achieve that on behalf of Canadians.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you very much, Mr. Masse.

It's already been an hour. It's hard to believe. Time flies.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Unfortunately, Mr. Généreux, it's already over.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I'm happy to stay for five or 10 minutes if Mr. Généreux has questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

That's very generous of you, Mr. Champagne.

Mr. Généreux, you have the floor.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Mr. Généreux, I would not want you to think I am not generous enough to hear you before I leave. I will be happy to answer your questions.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Lucky I have such a fine name. Thank you, Minister. I appreciate it.

I went on ChatGPT and typed in the key words "Minister Champagne", "CP‑140 Aurora planes", "Canada" and "Boeing". The results said there was no connection between you and the Boeing plane, but I see one, since you met with the Boeing people last week.

I'm joking, of course, because we are very fond of everything relating to artificial intelligence.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Just to be clear, I have to say there were no discussions about that. The idea is that I want Boeing to make investments here in Canada.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

It's just to say that we have to continue to invest in artificial intelligence, because it doesn't seem to be up and running.

Inevitably, there is a connection between you and Boeing, because you may be going to sign an untendered contract with that company. I'm not the one saying that; it's the media.

As proud Quebeckers and proud Canadians, we absolutely have to give Canadian companies, like Bombardier, a chance to bid on these kinds of tenders. I hope you will be their champion and that you will be speaking with the Minister of Public Services and Procurement and the Minister of National Defence to ensure that Quebec and Canadian companies at least have a chance to bid on tenders. They don't want an untendered contract or anything like that, but they want at least to have the opportunity to submit bids.

Do you intend to meet with people in the aerospace industry in Quebec and Canada, as you have just done in the United States, so they will have that opportunity?

I hope you were not going to give Boeing a blank cheque when you went to the United States last week.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Quite the opposite, Mr. Généreux. The difference is that Canadian manufacturers all have my phone number and they call me at least once a week. I don't often see the manufacturers in the United States.

The idea behind the mission was precisely to promote the interests of Canadian companies. Before we went, they told us what they wanted. As spokesperson for the Government of Canada, we went there to say that there were opportunities, but that we wanted economic benefits here at home. So this was about promoting Canadian companies to the big American clients, so they could be included in the big supply chains.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

I reiterate that we have companies with the capacity to build planes. You and the Liberal government, you pat yourselves on the back about the environment and reducing greenhouse gas emissions. Well, Bombardier's planes use 50% less fuel. You already know all that, but I wanted to say it publicly, because it's important to understand. Planes have evolved over time, as has Bombardier.

The question here is Canada's sovereignty over its entire aerospace industry. We want that industry to continue to grow in Canada, along with the supply chain. Of course, it needs customers like the United States, but we want to make sure that Canadian companies have the same opportunities.

I don't know where the news that you might be signing an agreement as quickly as in the next few months or next few years comes from. There will be 10 more years before these planes have to be replaced, if I understand correctly. So what is the urgency? Why do you want to do this so quickly?

Once again, I reiterate, Canadian companies have to be given an opportunity to bid on this kind of contract.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I hear you.

I want to come back to the relationship with Canadian manufacturers. As you know, Mr. Généreux, I am well acquainted with all of them. If you were to ask them, they would tell you that I am their spokesperson, or their champion, as you say. You asked me whether I was the industry's champion. I think I am. Before we left for Washington, most of those people called on us to make sure we were going to be representing them well.

As I said earlier, this is not a matter of getting included for the equipment or planes that will be sold to Canada. I want our companies to be included in the global supply chains. That was it, the purpose of that visit.

I think we are on the same wavelength. I want to be clear: we didn't go there to give contracts to companies; we went there to attract investments to be made by them. That is the idea behind it. We told them we wanted to see them invest in Canada.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

I follow you 100 per cent.

What I want to know is whether you are going to make yourself the champion, or, again, the spokesperson, for Quebec and Canadian aerospace companies, to make sure they have the right or opportunity to bid on this kind of project. Again, none of those companies is asking for a golden ticket or an untendered contract. They just want an opportunity to bid on the contract.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I think Quebec and Canadian aerospace companies know that I have been their champion for a long time. In fact, I have done that in all of the departments I have been responsible for, Mr. Généreux.

As you say, we have the excellence, the workforce and the capacity needed. Obviously, the products we sell have to be adapted to the missions and needs of the Department of National Defence.

I think that in five years, you and I will be saying that this trip to Washington was something that had to be done. We are positioning Canada like never before.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

You didn't invite me on that trip; instead, you invited my Bloc Québécois colleague.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

You are always invited, Mr. Généreux. I would be happy to travel with you.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Once again, I strongly urge you to meet with the Bombardier people and the aeronautics industry.

I could have asked a lot more questions.

The estimates provide for additional money that will be spent in various sectors and various regions of Canada, including through Canada Economic Development for Quebec Regions. As my colleague Mr. Lemire said earlier, we want to have a Canada-wide aerospace strategy, and all these initiatives contribute to building that strategy.

In all sincerity, I think this is a phenomenal industry in Canada. We have to keep our jobs local. I agree that we have to go and create jobs elsewhere and go and get contracts elsewhere, for sure, but I reiterate that Canadian companies should have an opportunity to bid on contracts in Canada.

Thank you very much for your generosity, Minister.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

It's my pleasure.

Mr. Généreux, I think you witnessed the most important announcement in the history of the aerospace industry in Canada. It was made while I was the Minister of Innovation, Science and Industry. I was with Prime Minister Trudeau and Premier Legault to announce an investment of almost $2 billion. On that day, we announced an investment of $1 billion, but we have invested almost $2 billion in aerospace. As you say, people in the industry know that we are behind them.

I often say that on the global level, Montreal is the third most important city in the field of aerospace, after Toulouse and Seattle. That is exactly the message I took to Washington. Often, neighbours are so close they forget things. I actually reminded our neighbours of everything we are capable of doing. Your colleague Mr. Lemire was with me and he saw how many times I asked our counterparts to remember what we can offer. We have the talent and the ecosystems. We have embarked on hybrid propulsion, which was discussed earlier. We are on the leading edge of that technology. I was with the CEO of Pratt & Whitney, a company whose biggest plant is located right in Longueuil, Quebec.

I think we are well positioned for the future.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Minister.

We have to conclude the portion of our meeting in your company for real, Minister, or else I am going to be scolded by your team, since I know you have a meeting at 5 p.m. Thank you very much for staying with us a bit longer. It is always pleasant to have you at the committee. You will certainly be invited back.

I am now going to suspend the meeting so the next witnesses can get set up.