Industry Committee on Feb. 13th, 2023

[Ryan Williams, Conservative, Bay of Quinte, ON]

He's stating these are private conditions that you set.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Listen, I cannot comment about his testimony. I can tell you what I do because I'm the regulator. I happen to know what the regulator says.

[Ryan Williams, Conservative, Bay of Quinte, ON]

You can say if his testimony is wrong.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Yes, but I'm the regulator. There's a big difference. Those are witnesses who come in front of me. The regulator looks at the facts presented to him. That's how it works.

[Ryan Williams, Conservative, Bay of Quinte, ON]

Sir, I get that. Did the CEO of Rogers mislead the committee by stating that?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Listen, that's your assertion. I'm saying that I'm the regulator and my role is to protect the Canadian public. I want lower prices for Canadians. I want more competition. The best way to achieve that in Canada is having a fourth national player. I will defend Canadian public interest at every stage. That's why you've seen me very publicly impose conditions.

Just for the record and so you understand, my jurisdiction is not about competition. My jurisdiction under the Telecommunications Act in Canada is about spectrum. It's not to look at the competition aspect. It's to look at the spectrum transfer. That's why I take that response very seriously. Even though I've imposed...and I've said there will be conditions to whoever is coming in front of me, it's because I want to make sure there will be a better price for Canadians.

[Ryan Williams, Conservative, Bay of Quinte, ON]

I appreciate that, Minister. I know you're a lawyer and a regulator. Those conditions aren't enforceable because, again—

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

That's what you say. Trust me. When you see it, you'll be pleased.

[Ryan Williams, Conservative, Bay of Quinte, ON]

I know that, but I guess I'm just saying that I hope—

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I've not made a decision. We'll see what happens. Like I said, I am not near a decision. There will be a decision in due course.

I've said that whatever I say and whatever is going to be applied will have to be fully enforceable.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Williams.

As much as I enjoy this exchange, we'll have to turn to Mr. Dong for five minutes.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Minister, it's really good to see you here.

Let's change the channel.

Canadian post-secondary institutions play a critical role in making Canada a global leader in science and innovation. In my riding of Don Valley North, Seneca College does a fantastic job supporting the local businesses and entrepreneurs, especially with its applied research.

Can you tell the committee a little bit about the importance of funding science and research and the important role that post-secondary institutions play in that process?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

First of all, thank you for the question.

I keep saying that the science of today is the economy of tomorrow. Our commitment to research and science is very important. You've seen that we've invested $14 billion, I think, since 2016 to really make sure that Canada will take the place that it had in the past when it comes to research, so that we can have evidence-based decisions made by the government...informing all our decisions.

The investments we've made in science are historic, I would say. Obviously, we always need to do more. It's good that we have done so, but we need to do more.

Certainly we've been supporting applied research and fundamental research. I meet regularly with the different universities to see how we can do more together. It's not only looking at the government, but looking at who we could partner with. It's looking at what's going on in Germany or at what our colleagues are doing in the United States. It's trying to find new forums to make sure that the research and inventions that are created by our labs and by our talented researchers, which we have across Canada, can transform themselves into a product and a service.

I'm very pleased with what I see. Certainly, I must say that research excellence is recognized around the world when it comes to Canada.

I go back to my piece about talent. Canada is a big magnet for talent. We need to continue to invest so that we remain at the forefront of all these discoveries. I can think of AI, quantum and cybersecurity. It's fascinating that when you go around the world, people refer to Canada as a leader when it comes to these cutting-edge technologies. That's how our investment in science and research is making a huge difference.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

I can't wait to see you at Seneca College in my riding. Consider that an invitation.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Consider this an acceptance.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

Perfect.

Minister, you also have Bill C‑34 in the House. If passed, it will update the Investment Canada Act. We're looking forward to seeing this bill come to this committee, of course.

I represent a very diverse riding. There are immigrants. There are new Canadians who have come from China and from Iran. There is a huge Armenian community. There's a South Asian community. A lot of these entrepreneurs are now Canadian, but they weren't born in this country, so they are actually paying special attention to this piece of legislation.

Can you tell the committee why is it important to protect Canada's national security interests through updating this bill?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

It is fundamental. I'll go back to questions from colleagues that I received earlier. What Bill C-34 has tried to do is to provide the minister with more agility. We need better tools to protect our national security. We need to have more enforcement measures. We also need to be able to seek undertakings and impose conditions. That is something that our colleagues in the United States do regularly when they look at these transactions.

Overall, I think it's about modernizing an instrument that has served Canada very well. That's why I'm very keen to work with the committee to make sure we have all of the tools needed to protect our national security. As I was saying before in one of the answers, today national security and economic prosperity go hand in hand.

I'll go back to questions from Mr. Perkins, I think at the beginning, asking why this and that. I think what I'm asking of Parliament is to make sure that the ministers of industry and future ministers have all of the tools at their disposal to better protect national security in Canada, and our economic security as well. That's because we see state and non-state actors looking at what we're doing in Canada.

To your point, when I said no to the takeover of three lithium mines by Chinese companies, I think it sent a strong message that we take these matters very seriously. We rely on advice from our intelligence agencies that work with Minister Mendicino, the Minister of Public Safety.

I think our allies around the world look at that and say that Canada is serious when it comes to national security. It's the same thing when it comes to research security. We have to engage with eyes wide open to make sure we protect our assets, while allowing for foreign investments to come to Canada, for sure, but at the same time making sure that we protect our national security.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Dong. Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Lemire, the floor is yours.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, you have often talked about the importance of having a more consistent, open and agile support system for research. In fact, I would urge you to also think about how to make our budgets more decentralized and ensure that the institutions that are part of the Université du Québec network have a fairer share, compared to the universities that belong to the U15 Group.

I think the members of our committee would like to see the report of the Advisory Panel on the Federal Research Support System. Would it be possible to send us the report of the chair of the advisory panel, Frédéric Bouchard, that was completed at the end of 2022 and relates directly to the research mission of Canadian universities?

I think that report will help our committee assess the level of preparedness of all the various actors in the federal research support ecosystem, in particular the funding bodies.

I think it's an excellent idea to ask your department to provide that report to the clerk of our committee.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Thank you for that question, Mr. Lemire.

We have talked about this with Mr. Bouchard and with your colleagues. We said we were entirely open to this idea.

Mr. Bouchard's work is essential. He has already submitted his report to us, and, personally, I very much like what I see in it. It also contains very important recommendations.

We ourselves are very open to transparency and the idea that the report be made public. I think Mr. Bouchard is in the process of looking at how the report could be made public in the coming weeks.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

What steps are missing for making it public, do you think?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

We were asked whether we were open to the idea, and the answer was yes. As far as what happens now, we shall see. In any event, we are certainly open to the idea of making the report public.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I'm pleased to hear it.

I have a supplementary question.

Canada is the only G7 country to have reduced its R&D investments over the last 20 years. That shows the importance of having an update on the report, which follows up on the advisory panel, that has never been updated.

What is your reaction to that statistic?

What steps are you going to take in this regard?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

We have done a lot already. As I said, since 2016, we have invested $14 billion in research. Of course, we have to continue. That is the solution, as I think everyone involved agrees. That is why the situation is being examined in detail. Recent budgets included investments in research and science, and we are going to continue investing in this area.

The investments are particularly important for students. If we want to keep talent in Canada, we have to be able to offer them scholarships that are adjusted to today's cost of living. That is something I always keep top of mind. I can confirm that I have heard a lot of students, researchers and scientists say they wanted to stay in Canada, because it's a place that attracts a lot of talent, but in order to do that, they needed to have the necessary funds.

So we are looking into this subject, because we are very aware of the importance of these investments for our prosperity, not just for today, but for tomorrow too.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

It's essential, even. I'm very happy to hear you talking about scholarships.

Thank you, Minister.