Evidence of meeting #14 for International Trade in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was human.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Carl Potts  Director of Market Development, Pulse Canada
Murad Al-Katib  Board Member, Pulse Canada
Denis Lemelin  National President, Canadian Union of Postal Workers
Mark Rowlinson  Labour Lawyer, Canadian Association of Labour Lawyers
Jan Westcott  President and Chief Executive Officer, Spirits Canada / Association of Canadian Distillers
CJ Hélie  Executive Vice-President, Spirits Canada / Association of Canadian Distillers

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson

Good afternoon. Welcome to the fourteenth meeting of this session of the 40th Parliament of our Standing Committee on International Trade.

Today we're going to continue our consideration of Bill C-2, An Act to implement the Free Trade Agreement between Canada and the Republic of Colombia, the Agreement on the Environment between Canada and the Republic of Colombia and the Agreement on Labour Cooperation between Canada and the Republic of Colombia.

To assist us today, we have as witnesses, first, from the Canadian Association of Labour Lawyers, Mark Rowlinson.

Welcome, and thank you for coming.

From Pulse Canada, we have Carl Potts, whom we've had before. He's the director of market development.

Welcome back, Mr. Potts.

We also have with us Murad Al-Katib, a board member at Pulse Canada.

We also have, from Spirits Canada and the Association of Canadian Distillers, Jan Westcott, president and chief executive officer.

Welcome back again, Jan, and thank you for coming.

We also have with us CJ Hélie, the executive vice-president of Spirits Canada.

From the Canadian Union of Postal Workers, we have with us Denis Lemelin, the national president.

We are going to hear brief opening statements from each group. I hope these can be kept within 10 minutes, because I'd really like to give all of the members an opportunity to ask questions today.

As we do have other business on the agenda, I'm going to get going right now. Following your statements, we'll start immediately with questions. We'll try to keep the first round to 10 minutes, and if we have time for a second round, we will go to five minutes for each round of questioning.

Without further ado, I think we'll get started on Bill C-2 and ask for opening statements. As I'm facing the witnesses, I may just start on my left with Mr. Potts.

We'll hear from Carl Potts from Pulse Canada for an opening statement. Thank you.

3:35 p.m.

Carl Potts Director of Market Development, Pulse Canada

Good afternoon.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, for the opportunity to present here in front of you on this important matter today.

I'm pleased to have with me and will share my time this afternoon with Mr. Murad Al-Katib. He's on the board of directors of Pulse Canada. He's past-president of the Canadian Special Crops Association and he's also president and CEO of Alliance Grain Traders, which is the world's largest lentil and pea-splitting company and one of the world's largest exporters of lentils.

Pulse Canada is the national industry association that represents growers, processors, and exporters of pulses from Canada. Provincial pulse growers organizations and processors and exporters that are members of the Canadian Special Crops Association provide funding and guidance to our association.

Canadian pulse growers, processors, and exporters are critically dependent on exports for continued prosperity and growth. Typically, 70% to 75% of Canada's pulse production is exported, and when you look at specific products, it's even higher than that. In 2009, Canadian pulse exports topped $2.1 billion, which is a new high, a new record.

Our industry has taken a very keen interest in the pursuit of strategic bilateral free trade agreements. Particularly, we look to ensure that we are able to retain competitive access to key markets. Key priorities for us include Peru, Colombia, and Morocco, and the Dominican Republic as well.

Colombia is a critical market for Canadian pulses and special crops. It's one of the top markets for green lentils and Canada's eighth largest market for pulses overall, importing about 104,000 tonnes, or $70-million worth of product in 2009. Colombia is also a very significant market for dried peas, canary seed, and chickpeas, and with an agreement in place, we can begin to re-establish our market share for red beans into Colombia, which we've lost in recent years. In addition, pulse and special crops are Canada's second-largest agrifood export to Colombia at the present time.

In terms of the impact of our competitors' agreements on our industry, the U.S. agreement negotiated with Colombia gives U.S. pulses preferential access. It gives them tariff-free access for an unrestricted quantity of peas, lentils, and chickpeas, and for some special crops as well, and for beans it provides a tariff rate quota system that will progressively increase U.S. access over a period of about 10 years. If this is left unchecked, without a Canadian agreement in place, Canada will face a very stiff tariff disadvantage for pulses into Colombia, and it will significantly impact our market share.

Let me give you a few examples of what the impact will be of this Canadian agreement.

First off, this agreement will ensure that we retain competitive access for one of our key markets. To give you an example, if the landed cost of lentils in Colombia is about a thousand bucks a tonne, a 15% tariff disadvantage works out to about $150 per tonne.

In an extremely competitive marketplace, it's often a matter of a few dollars per tonne that makes the difference between making the sale or not, so tariff disadvantages of this sort of magnitude will effectively shut the Canadian industry out of this market and reduce prices for Canadian farmers. This is really one of the most important aspects of this agreement for our industry: ensuring that we retain competitive access.

Secondly, this agreement will also re-establish competitive access for Canadian red beans, which have been effectively shut out of this market by a prohibitive 60% import duty.

Thirdly, the market will also reduce duties and the cost of product in Colombia. If you look at a product like canary seed, if we eliminate a 15% tariff disadvantage, we reduce the costs, and we have the potential for increased demand because of lower costs into Colombia.

We also could stand to gain an advantage relative to the U.S. for a period of time. We fully expect that it's just a matter of time before the U.S. implements their agreement with Colombia. But if we can get a tariff advantage even for a period of time, we may be able to establish an even stronger foothold into Colombia. An example of this may be the use of peas as a feed ingredient, where our analysis has indicated that, with the Canadian agreement in place, we could stand to have a $10- to $15-per-tonne advantage over U.S. corn and soybean meal into that particular market.

I'll now turn my time over to Mr. Al-Katib, who will make some specific comments from the perspective of a major exporter of these products from Canada.

3:40 p.m.

Murad Al-Katib Board Member, Pulse Canada

Thank you, Carl.

My company, Alliance Grain Traders Incorporated, is based in Regina. We are one of the largest processors and exporters of pulse crops in the world, starting only seven years ago in the basement of my house, and now accounting for over $300 million in exports from Saskatchewan. We've created over 300 new jobs in Saskatchewan, Manitoba, and Alberta.

Pulses are something that I think people are starting to get more familiar with here on Parliament Hill as a result of the dramatic growth of the sector in western Canada. If we look at a product like lentils alone, we can see that it will account for over three million acres of production in Saskatchewan this year. Canada is the world leader in green lentil production and has a dominant market share of about 75% of the global trade in this particular product.

As a result, changes in Canadian supplies, through changes in production and changes in carry-out stock levels, have significant impacts on the global price levels that reflect back to returns to Canadian growers.

There are only a limited number of markets for green lentils in the world, and Colombia is arguably the number one or number two market in the world for this particular commodity. As a result of Canada's dominant market position, we do enjoy a very dominant market penetration in Colombia today, on a 15% tariff basis, which of course may change dramatically if the U.S. agreement goes ahead and ours does not.

The U.S. industry recognizes the opportunity to take advantage of preferential access and is fully supporting the U.S. free trade agreement with Colombia as a way to actually displace Canada as the major supplier of this particular product. It's critical that Canada implement this agreement with Colombia to ensure that the Canadian trade and Canadian farmers retain their competitive access to one of its most important markets and retain the market share that they have worked hard to build over many, many years.

Now, to look at the impact of the agreement, it will re-establish access for Canadian red beans. It will allow us to preserve our market position in the current crops that we sell into that market. This particular bill does enjoy strong support from our industry. In fact, the Canadian Special Crops Association, which is made up of 150-odd members from across Canada, has endorsed this particular agreement unconditionally.

When we look at the impact on employment, in addition to the significant impact on growers and pulse crops, we can see that losing our competitive access to a market will have a significant impact on the value-added processing and exporting companies in our industry.

Now, I talk about being the largest, but I want to note that I started my first shipment in January of 2003. and this is an industry dominated by small and medium-sized enterprises. It is an industry that is definitely critical to the economy in western Canada. So the companies in our industry range from large multinational grain companies to others, but also are really dominated by small single-plant processors. These companies are significant sources of employment in Canada and provide quality jobs in the areas of marketing, finance, logistics, plant operations, etc.

From a perspective of customers in Colombia, we were actually the target of some very significant and angry reactions from Colombian importers due to Canada's lack of response on the establishment of a free trade agreement prior to 2006. So the news of a pending agreement has been welcome to the industry there.

As for the industry there, we must recognize that this is basic protein food for the mainstream consumer. This is not a politically sensitive commodity, and it is providing basic health and nutrition to many citizens in the country. So providing cost-effective access to this type of commodity on a duty structure that is much more favourable does do a lot for basically building civil society within that country.

I have with me a letter from the major importer in Colombia, which summarizes the benefit of the agreement to consumers. I will quote from it:

With the low incomes for a large part of some social classes...[the duty] saving would positively support their food needs with an excellent nutritional value. These products are not sensitive locally and do not displace local production.

Will the Colombian citizen benefit? Yes. With pulses being important protein sources for the poorest people in the world, lower tariffs have the potential to provide food at a lower cost.

Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, the agreement is critical to our industry. It will ensure that we remain competitive in Colombia relative to the United States and will ensure that the years of market development by our companies are not jeopardized. It will allow us to rebuild our market share in red beans and it will provide an opportunity to gain an advantage relative to other shippers if Canada implements our agreement before the United States.

We need to ensure we implement as soon as possible, preferably before we start marketing and shipping our new crop later this summer.

We thank you for the opportunity.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson

Thank you. That was very informative. I appreciate it.

Go ahead, Monsieur Lemelin.

May 4th, 2010 / 3:45 p.m.

Denis Lemelin National President, Canadian Union of Postal Workers

I will give my presentation in French. I also have a document that was translated in both languages.

On behalf of the Canadian Union of Postal Workers, I want to thank you for the opportunity to appear before the committee on Bill C-2.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson

I'm just wondering, Monsieur Lemelin, if you could just speak a little more slowly for the benefit of the translators. Thank you.

3:45 p.m.

National President, Canadian Union of Postal Workers

Denis Lemelin

Okay. So it will take more than 10 minutes, if I understand correctly.

3:45 p.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh!

3:45 p.m.

National President, Canadian Union of Postal Workers

Denis Lemelin

I want to thank you for the opportunity to appear before you. CUPW represents 54,000 workers, in both rural and urban communities from coast to coast to coast. A majority of our members work for Canada Post.

I have been to Colombia several times, both as part of my work and for personal reasons. For a number of years now, CUPW has been working in alliance with the Colombian postal workers union, Sindicato de Trabajadores Postales de Colombia, or STPC. We have seen the organization change over the years. We try to assist them in their efforts to maintain decent jobs and a public postal service and to help them self-organize after they lost their jobs as a result of the privatization of their postal service, which was known as Adpostal. The service's disappearance was essentially backed by military and paramilitary groups. We work with the union as it tries to protect workers rights. So we have had a very important relationship with the Colombian postal workers union for a number of years.

During that time, we have of course been concerned by the issue of human rights. In our view, human rights and trade union rights are one and the same. They are a key concern.

We became especially concerned in 2005, when Porfirio Rivas, the president of the STPC at the time, was forced into exile in Canada, more specifically, Quebec, with the support of unions including the Fédération des travailleurs et travailleuses du Québec. He had raised concerns about the potential privatization of Adpostal. Since he worked at the mail centre near the airport, he had seen things that made him want to speak out against certain habits that the postal service had in terms of transporting drugs.

He came here in 2005. In August 2006, police surrounded the mail centre near the airport. Workers were escorted out at gun point. It also happened at a number of postal facilities afterwards. An executive order to wind down the national postal corporation, Adpostal, was issued in August 2006. Clearly, many workers lost their jobs—mostly postal workers—in Colombia's large centres, including Bogotá, Cali and Medellín. Only a handful of union members remain.

Having worked with them, it is difficult for us to see the extent to which the Colombian union, which used to have more than 2,000 members, was, in the span of seven or eight years, completely destroyed and virtually wiped off the map through privatization. Not to mention the fact that trade union rights and human rights were seriously destabilized as a result. Currently, the union is trying to recover and reorganize with our help. Today, the postal service in Colombia is run by a numbered company, and we do not necessarily know what that means. The private sector has grown significantly. In our view, this disappearance is a flagrant example of what is happening to workers in Colombia.

So that has been the nature of our relationship with them. That being said, it is important to note that the situation in Colombia does not just affect our relationship with the STPC, but also Colombia's international standing. In addition, the International Trade Union Confederation (ITUC), which brings together 145 million workers worldwide, has repeatedly voiced its opinion on human rights and the situation in Colombia.

I would like to quote one or two examples from a survey prepared by ITUC.

There are a number of legal impediments to the full exercise of freedom of association in Colombia, however, such as Resolution no. 626 of February 2008, which gives as one of the reasons for denying registration "that the trade union organisation was formed for purposes other than those derived from the fundamental right of association".

That is extremely important. A freedom is supposedly guaranteed, but, at the same time, it is being restricted by conditions that you are probably already familiar with—paramilitary groups, guerrilla groups such as FARC and so forth. Very quickly, workers are associated with these groups and targeted.

There are many problems in Colombia related to various contractual arrangements. There, they talk about workers' cooperatives, which are not the same as those we have here. They talk about service contracts, and civil and commercial contracts, which are mock employment contracts. They are not genuine collective agreements, but agreements with intermediary groups in Colombia that act as intermediaries for labour. Companies deal directly with those organizations rather than with unions.

In reality, what we are seeing is that free collective bargaining is elusive in Colombia, and that is what the International Trade Union Confederation pointed out in its report.

Colombian legislation has introduced a principle of discrimination against the jobs and collective bargaining rights of public sector workers, by classifying them as "official workers" ("trabajadores oficiales") or "civil servants" ("empleados publicos"). The unions representing public sector workers are not allowed to put forward demands or sign collective agreements [...]

The only right they have is to submit “respectful requests” to their employer. ITUC's report goes on to say:

Barely 1.2% of workers in Colombia are covered by a collective agreement. In 2008 only 473 agreements were signed, of which 256 were collective agreements negotiated with the unions and 217 were pacts [...]

We are seeing a steady drop in union organization, and that is an ongoing reality. We know that over the past 15 to 20 years in Colombia, more than 2,000 union leaders have been assassinated on various occasions by various groups. In 2009, 45 trade unionists were murdered. It is obvious that these assassinations—everyone will understand—were intended as a show of power, the power of paramilitary groups. They were intended to send trade unionists a message: stay home, do not move, do not organize because you will be targeted—which happened to STPC leaders.

In 2005, the Uribe government adopted the Law on Justice and Peace—which you have most likely heard of—which was designed to promote reconciliation and the fight against impunity. The term “impunity” is key here. Murders take place regularly but these situations are never really identified. In its report, ITUC notes the shortcomings of the Law on Justice and Peace. I will quote one or two examples.

It is only applicable to the few members of illegal armed groups that are under investigation or have already been sentenced. Given the high level of impunity, most of the paramilitaries and members of guerrilla groups are not subjected to any investigations.

The ITUC report also states:

The possibility of combatants enjoying illegally obtained assets is seriously affecting the victims' rights to compensation.

That is when action was taken. Keep in mind that more than 4 million people have been displaced in Colombia—as you probably know—and their displacement is a direct result of situations experienced by trade unionists. Former combatants can return and re-engage in the same paramilitary activities as before. We prepared a document entitled Forever Solidarity.

In July 2008, I went to Colombia with three other trade union leaders from the public sector, representing more than one million workers across the country—the Canadian Union of Public Employees, the Public Service Alliance of Canada and the provincial workers union—to see what was happening in Colombia as various activities had been organized. We went to Colombia just after the commission, which prepared a report that you are probably familiar with.

We attended the Permanent People's Tribunal, known as the Bertrand-Russell Tribunal to some of you, and we attended a few of the plenary sessions, in the country and in Bogotá.

The tribunal identified three things in its report.

Colombia is an economic laboratory which has resulted in deaths, disappearances, millions of displaced people, the destruction of the environment, a severe weakening of the trade union movement and the discounted sell-off of the country to multinationals. The Government of Colombia's democratic security doctrine has paved the way for mass exploitation. The people who fight for human rights in Colombia are very vulnerable.

The Permanent People's Tribunal is made up of prominent international figures, including a Nobel Peace Prize laureate. They came to a verdict after a two-year process.

The document—which you will probably have the chance to read—talks about certain free-trade ties between the Canadian government.... At the end of our report, we made several recommendations specifically having to do with an independent investigation, by an independent organization. We also recommended that the government examine a number of issues before moving ahead with a free-trade agreement with Colombia.

In our view, there is no real difference between today, 2010, and 2008, given that a mass grave containing 2,000 bodies was just discovered near a military base in the town of La Macarena, Colombia, which I am sure everyone has heard about.

There are three recommendations that we want to make to the committee. I will read them to you, and then we can discuss them.

We believe that a human rights impact assessment should take place prior to the implementation of the agreement. This is in order to obtain a clear assessment of the human rights situation in Colombia as it exists today and within its historical context. Such an assessment would provide a baseline for future assessments and would allow a clearer determination as to whether closer engagement and economic growth would have a positive impact on human rights.

We believe that such an assessment should be undertaken by impartial and credible parties. The assessment should not be undertaken by the Colombian government. It is not acceptable that government officials who are committed to this deal or who have a responsibility to oversee human rights in Colombia should undertake this assessment.

We believe—if ever things move forward —any amendment must include specific and concrete steps to address any human rights problem or issue that comes to light as a result of a human rights impact assessment. Without those specific and concrete redress mechanisms in place, the proposed annual assessment—in the form of either an amendment or an addition to the agreement—must be put forward. So there needs to be options, but we think the first step is the independent investigation.

Thank you for listening.

4 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson

Thank you.

Next is Mark Rowlinson.

4 p.m.

Mark Rowlinson Labour Lawyer, Canadian Association of Labour Lawyers

Thank you very much.

I hope you can hear me. My name is Mark Rowlinson. I'm counsel to United Steelworkers, but I'm also a member of the international labour rights committee of the Canadian Association of Labour Lawyers, on whose behalf I appear before you this afternoon.

The Canadian Association of Labour Lawyers is an association of over 350 progressive lawyers who represent workers, trade unions, professionals in other associations in a wide range of legal matters across Canada. Over the last 15 years, CALL has been actively working to promote labour rights in the Americas, and we have been an active participant in the litigation and consultation processes set up under the labour side agreements first of NAFTA.

CALL last appeared before this same committee on this same issue—that is to say, Canada-Colombia free trade—in the spring of 2008, during the hearings that led to this committee's June 2008 report entitled Human Rights, the Environment and Free Trade with Colombia. I have a copy here, and I'm sure you're all well familiar with it.

We thank the committee for giving us an opportunity to testify again, now that we have a copy of the proposed trade agreements and the implementing legislation. My presentation today will consist of three parts.

First, I wish to make a few observations regarding the current labour rights situation in Colombia. Second, I will provide CALL's view on the labour provisions contained in the proposed trade agreements, and in that part, my presentation will be a very much briefer version of the brief that was presented to you, I believe, by Gauri Sreenivasan from CICC at last Thursday's hearings. Finally, I will provide our views on the amendment or addition--proposed by, as I understand it, the Liberal trade critic--that would require, again as I understand it, a human rights update report to be delivered to Parliament on an annual basis in respect of the Canada-Colombia free trade agreement.

First, I have a few recent observations regarding labour rights violations in Colombia. Violations of fundamental labour rights and violence committed against unionized workers are obviously amongst Colombia's foremost human rights challenges. To this day, Colombia remains the most dangerous place in the world to be a trade unionist, accounting for a majority of the murders of trade unionists around the world.

According to the latest figures provided by Colombia's National Labour School, since 1986 there have been 2,789 trade unionists murdered in Colombia. While there has undeniably been a decline in that murder rate since 2001, the decline has ended in recent years. In 2007, Colombia's National Labour School reported that 39 trade unionists were murdered. In 2008, 49 murders were reported, an increase of 18%; and just recently it was reported that in 2009, 47 trade unionists were murdered—essentially the same figure as 2008. In other words, while there was a precipitous decline in the middle part of this first decade of the new century, that decline has ended.

I know that you've heard from the Colombian government, which suggested that last year only 28 trade unionists were murdered. From our perspective, it doesn't really matter whether it's 28 or 48. The reality is that it's still far too many. And the reality is that more trade unionists are murdered in Colombia than anywhere else on this continent.

The 2009 figures are especially concerning, given that in 2008 the government began showcasing improvements in the human rights situation to counter opposition to both the U.S.-Colombia FTA and the Canada-Colombia FTA. It is obviously the case that murder and the threat of murder will have a chilling effect on trade union activity in Colombia. The question this committee has to ask is that if workers fear for their lives when deciding to exercise fundamental labour rights, how can they can effectively share in the potential benefits of trade?

Importantly, it continues to be the case that impunity rates for these labour rights violations remain largely unchanged, with a 3% conviction rate. This level of impunity creates very little incentive for perpetrators to cease their actions. Furthermore, trade union density in Colombia also continues to fall. I know that this committee has heard different accounts of trade union density statistics in Colombia. Again, the National Labour School recently reported that in 2009, trade union density rates were around 4.2%. Again, they continue to fall. They're down from 13.5% from 20 or 30 years ago.

President Uribe argues that his administration has taken extraordinary steps to counter the violence against trade unionists, devoting new resources, including judges to address labour cases as well as additional funding to the attorney general's office for investigation and prosecution.

Such resources are of course appreciated, but the abuses and persecution of trade unionists and human rights defenders persist. As an organization of labour lawyers, CALL is very concerned about the protection of human rights defenders in Colombia who are faced with regular threats and intimidation. Indeed, in the March 2010 report on the human rights situation in Colombia, the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights reported that in 2009 there was actually an increase in intimidation and death threats against human rights defenders and social and community leaders, as well as against members of marginalized groups.

In short, in our view, the labour rights and human rights situation in Colombia remains dire. It was still the case again in 2009 that 60% of the trade unionists killed in the Americas were killed in Colombia.

The question then becomes whether there is anything in the Canada-Colombia trade agreement that is going to address these labour rights violations.

It's been our experience that trade agreements are not written to improve labour standards, and there is, frankly, little evidence that such agreements can become vehicles for the enforcement of labour rights. On the contrary, the market access and investor rights provisions of the text of the agreement could serve to increase the rate of labour rights violations because of the structural impediments to union freedoms in Colombia and the gap between legislation and practice in Colombian society.

The labour provisions found in the Canada-Colombia FTA generally follow the pattern that we see in existing hemispheric trade agreements, specifically the NAFTA labour side agreement, the Canada-Costa Rica FTA, and most recently the Canada-Peru FTA. There is a general consensus among the trade union movements in both Canada and Colombia that the protections found in these trade agreements negotiated thus far have left much to be desired. The enforcement provisions are generally weak and ineffective, and the agreements tend to focus on the enforcement of existing statutes rather than on raising labour standards.

I want to make this point: if you look at the labour rights situation in Mexico since the NAFTA labour rights agreement was entered into, it has arguably become worse. We have close relationships with the Mexican trade union movement, and the reality is that NAFTA has done nothing to improve trade union rights in Mexico. In fact, they're presently in a worse crisis than they have ever had, so there's no evidence that the NAFTA labour side agreement has led to improvements in labour rights in Mexico. The experience has been the opposite, and there is no reason to believe that this agreement with Colombia would not have the same effect.

The Canada-Colombia FTA provisions represent an evolution of--and, I will concede, an improvement over--the existing NAFTA labour side agreement. Article 1 of the labour side agreement affirms that each party shall ensure that its laws provide protection for the internationally recognized labour principles contained in the 1998 ILO declaration, together with the ILO's decent work agenda. As such, this article contains greater substantive labour rights than those found in the NAFTA labour side agreement. However, article 2 of the Canada-Colombia labour side agreement, the non-derogation clause, only prohibits the violation of ILO standards when it can be demonstrated that the violation was done to encourage trade or investment. This is an arguable limitation on the substantive obligations of the parties.

Where the agreement becomes particularly problematic, of course....

Should I speak more slowly?

4:10 p.m.

Bloc

Jean-Yves Laforest Bloc Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

Could I ask you to speak more slowly? We have much the same problem now as we have with the simultaneous translation from French to English.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson

We tried that with the last speaker, and it went to 14 minutes. We're not going to let that happen again.

I'll leave it to you.

4:10 p.m.

Labour Lawyer, Canadian Association of Labour Lawyers

Mark Rowlinson

I'll limit my comments.

I just want to pick up by highlighting the weaknesses of the enforcement provision in the Canada-Colombia labour side agreement. The particular weakness that I want to focus upon is the fact that, once again, enforcement is left up to the signatory states and the signatory bureaucracies that are assigned the task of enforcing the labour rights.

That is to say, unlike in the investment provisions, the offended parties, whether that be workers, trade unions, or human rights organizations, have no ability whatsoever to advance these cases to a dispute resolution panel on their own. All of the enforcement takes place through the states themselves. The result of that, in our experience under existing agreements, is that you never get to the dispute resolution mechanism so you never get a remedy. Nothing, frankly, ever happens when these complaints are filed.

The other substantial failing, of course, is that there is a profound limitation on the remedies that are provided. Even if you were to get to a dispute resolution panel--namely, a fine in the amount of $15 million--and the payment of that fine...into essentially a labour fund; that's essentially how the agreement works.

Again, this committee has to ask itself whether or not a $15 million fine is a substantial enough penalty and remedy to seriously deter labour rights violators in Colombia, given the history of violence and appalling labour rights violations. In our respectful submission, that sort of fine is not sufficient.

Again, I urge you to compare the labour rights provision with the investor rights provisions. The investor rights provisions, in article 8, provide an enforceable arbitration mechanism that is effective, independent, and rapid. The awards are final and binding, and they provide real remedies to investors whose rights may be violated in the agreement. Again, the contrast is stark.

In our view, because this agreement contains no real trade sanctions such as the imposition of countervailing duties or the abrogation of preferential trade status in the event that a party fails to adhere to the labour rights provisions, and given the magnitude of the labour rights violations in Colombia and the failure of the current government to prosecute the offenders, we submit that simply issuing fines against the offending government is not an acceptable sanction. Moreover, it will provide no incentive for the Colombian administration to address the current crisis and bring an end to the violent assassination of Colombian trade unionists.

In general, experience suggests that the labour provisions in trade agreements, whether in side agreements or not, are unlikely to lead to concrete improvements for workers and trade unions. In our view, the labour rights provisions in the Canada-Colombia FTA are not sufficiently robust to even begin to address the serious labour and human rights situation in Colombia.

Finally, I want to take you back a little bit to the report that this committee produced in June 2008, entitled Human Rights, the Environment and Free Trade with Colombia, when it was considering the potential impact of the Canada-Colombia agreement. The report made several good recommendations unanimously, including the following recommendations.

4: The Committee recommends that an independent, impartial, and comprehensive human rights impact assessment should be carried out by a competent body, which is subject to levels of independent scrutiny and validation; the recommendations of this assessment should be addressed before Canada considers signing, ratifying and implementing an agreement with Colombia.

That was the recommendation of this committee in June 2008.

The Liberal trade critic has proposed an additional text, an amendment. I'm not exactly sure of the exact content of this proposal, but it was read into the record, and what was read into the record reads as follows.

The Minister shall cause to be laid before each House of Parliament by March 31 of each year or, if that House is not then sitting, on any of the thirty days next thereafter that it is sitting, a report of operations for the previous calendar year, containing a general summary of all actions taken under the authority of this Act, and an analysis of the impact of these actions on human rights in Canada and Colombia.

It is, in our view, undeniable that the amendment or addition to Bill C-2 proposed by the Liberal trade critic utterly fails to comply with the recommendation that this very committee had adopted in June 2008.

It utterly fails in at least three ways.

First, the recommendation of the committee was that the human rights impact assessment be carried out before Canada considers signing, ratifying, or implementing an agreement with Colombia. The proposal currently before this committee, of course, is that the reports be produced after the agreement is already signed and ratified.

Second, the recommendation of this committee was that the assessment would be independent, impartial, and subject to levels of independent scrutiny. The proposal now before this committee and under Bill C-2 is that the human rights reports would be prepared and submitted by the signatory governments themselves. Although there is not total clarity on who exactly is going to prepare these reports, in our opinion, the proposed human rights reports are not independent in any sense of the term as contemplated in this committee's June 2008 report.

Third, and most importantly, it was clearly the case that unless the recommendations in this committee's report were satisfied, then Canada should not implement a free trade agreement with Colombia. That is to say, if the conditions of the report were not satisfied, there would be real consequences. However, the amendment currently proposed by the Liberal trade critic has no consequences whatsoever, or that I am aware of, if in fact it emerges that the human, environmental, and labour rights situation in Colombia fails to improve, or in fact gets worse, once the Canada-Colombia FTA is signed. As such, without any penalty or enforcement provision at all, it is unclear to us if the amendment to the legislation has any real benefit. Rather, it seems to us that the additional paragraph is, frankly, window dressing.

In our view, the situation on the ground in Colombia has not changed substantially since June 2008. Therefore, we fail to see the basis upon which this committee would simply abandon the recommendations made in June 2008 and advance and recommend the implementation of this trade agreement.

Thank you very much.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson

That's fifteen and a half minutes, Mr. Rowlinson. We'll recall that next time you're invited, if you are.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

John Cannis Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON

Mr. Chairman, may I, sir?

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson

Yes.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

John Cannis Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON

Did our guest exceed the time, sir, if I may ask?

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson

Yes.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

John Cannis Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON

Well, Mr. Chair, I would beg the....

When we come here as a committee, in fairness to all the members--unless somebody else objects--there are questions we would like to ask, too. I would ask whoever the next speaker is to stick right to the time, sir. I have other work to do too. If I'm coming here to just sit and listen and not ask questions, then I might as well stay out.

Sorry; I'm just trying to be polite.

4:15 p.m.

Labour Lawyer, Canadian Association of Labour Lawyers

Mark Rowlinson

I apologize. I'm sorry.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

John Cannis Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON

I accept that...[Inaudible--Editor]

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson

Well, I'm sorry, but I have to accept Mr. Cannis....

I mean, I made it quite clear: it was 10 minutes. The previous speaker went 14. I was upset by that. We let it go. Then you went fifteen and a half. I think it's rude, and abusive of the committee.

Our point is made.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

John Cannis Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON

I apologize, Mr. Chair.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson

I wasn't talking about you.

Mr. Westcott, 10 minutes, please.