Evidence of meeting #14 for International Trade in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was human.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Carl Potts  Director of Market Development, Pulse Canada
Murad Al-Katib  Board Member, Pulse Canada
Denis Lemelin  National President, Canadian Union of Postal Workers
Mark Rowlinson  Labour Lawyer, Canadian Association of Labour Lawyers
Jan Westcott  President and Chief Executive Officer, Spirits Canada / Association of Canadian Distillers
CJ Hélie  Executive Vice-President, Spirits Canada / Association of Canadian Distillers

May 4th, 2010 / 4:15 p.m.

Jan Westcott President and Chief Executive Officer, Spirits Canada / Association of Canadian Distillers

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and members of the committee.

Spirits Canada is the only national trade association representing the interests of Canadian spirits manufacturers and marketers, and we appreciate the opportunity to appear before you today to share our views.

Let me start my comments with a very strong endorsement on behalf of our member companies for an FTA between Canada and Colombia. Canadian spirits manufacturers are found right across Canada--from Lethbridge, Calgary, and High River in Alberta to Gimli in Manitoba; Amherstburg, Brampton, Collingwood, Grimsby, and Windsor in Ontario; and LaSalle, Montreal, and Valleyfield in Quebec. Our world-renowned producers buy local grains, such as rye and corn, and transform them into highly prized spirits that are enjoyed by adults around the world.

We are, however, currently navigating very difficult circumstances. The near implosion of the American consumer market, for example, has had and is having a devastating impact on our local operations. The realized value of our exports to the U.S. in 2008 was nearly $55 million less than in the preceding year. With Canadian spirits producers exporting nearly seven of every ten bottles they make each year, exports are critical to the fiscal health of the Canadian spirits Industry.

So it is critical that we do what we can to further diversify our export base. While it is true that Colombia is not a large importer of Canadian spirits today, we believe it has future potential. In terms of overall spirits consumption, Colombia represents about the same volume potential as Mexico does to Canada—it exports over $1.5 million every year.

A number of years ago, several of our member companies identified Colombia as a potential new export opportunity, but one whose associated investment was not warranted without first achieving some changes in their beverage alcohol regulatory framework. Working closely with Canadian trade officials, we identified three key areas of market access improvement that would be needed for Canadian spirits, principally Canadian whisky—our signature product—and vodka to be competitive in Colombia. Those were recognition and protection of Canadian whisky and Canadian rye whisky as distinctive products, early elimination of Colombia's punitive 20% import customs tariff on spirits, and reform of Colombia's internal beverage alcohol taxation regime.

Allow me to very briefly explain the value and benefit and in fact the necessity of these elements. Formal recognition and protection for Canadian whisky provides security of investment, with such protection guaranteed by the Colombian federal government. That would be effective immediately upon ratification. That kind of protection affords Canadian whisky brand owners the confidence to invest in developing the Colombian market secure in the knowledge that they are not going to be abused by knockoff and counterfeit products that are going to trade on the established reputation of Canadian whisky.

At 20%, Colombia’s current import customs tariffs effectively render most Canadian spirits uncompetitive in the local market. By comparison, Canada eliminated its import tariffs on whiskies many years ago and imposes only modest import tariffs on vodka, gin, and rum, ranging from 5¢ to a little over 12¢ per litre of absolute alcohol. What this means is that a typical bottle of Canadian whisky entering Colombia would be subject to an import tariff of over $1.00 a bottle, while spirits entering Canada would only be subject to an import tariff of between 10¢ and 25¢.

It is also our contention that Colombia’s internal tax structure for beverage alcohol is constructed in such a manner as to afford protection to its local producers in breach of its international trade obligations under the WTO.

By way of example, Colombia imposes a substantially higher tax rate on spirits with an alcohol content greater than 35% by volume. By law, all Canadian whiskies and most other internationally traded spirits must be bottled at a minimum alcohol strength of 40%, while by practice most local Colombian spirits are bottled at just under the 35% threshold.

We are pleased that Canadian negotiators were very successful in achieving each of these three objectives in the agreement with Colombia. Article 212 of the agreement formally recognizes and protects Canadian whisky and Canadian rye whisky as distinctive products of Canada.

The agreement also requires Colombia to eliminate its customs tariffs for Canadian whisky and Canadian-made vodkas, the industry’s two primary interests, within 12 years of coming into force, with an accelerated provision should the U.S.-Colombia FTA be ratified within two years. Clearly a quicker elimination would have been preferred, but given the time that it takes to build brands in a marketplace, a 12-year phase-out is acceptable.

Finally, Annex 202 of the agreement also requires that Colombia’s measures related to the taxation of all beverages must be fully compliant with the country’s national treatment obligations within two years. We are pleased that Canadian trade negotiators were receptive to the industry’s interests and priorities and fully delivered on them. As a result, Canadian spirits manufacturers support the FTA text as negotiated as a net benefit for Canadian producers.

Thank you very much.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson

Thank you, Mr. Westcott.

Mr. Hélie, were you going to add comments? No? Fine.

Thank you for your brevity.

We're going to begin questions on this side today, with vice-chair Mr. Cannis.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

John Cannis Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON

Thank you, sir.

To Mr. Rowlinson, you said that a $15 million penalty is not enough. Can you tell us what would be enough?

And I need quick answers, because of time.

4:25 p.m.

Labour Lawyer, Canadian Association of Labour Lawyers

Mark Rowlinson

I've already been sanctioned for being overly long.

My view is that you need a wide variety of different penalties. Monetary fines are one avenue--

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

John Cannis Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON

Can you give us what is enough?

4:25 p.m.

Labour Lawyer, Canadian Association of Labour Lawyers

Mark Rowlinson

I can't tell you what is enough.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

John Cannis Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON

You can't: so you never thought about it. You're just saying $15 million is not enough. So then if it's $20 million or $30 million, it would not be enough, I guess.

4:25 p.m.

Labour Lawyer, Canadian Association of Labour Lawyers

Mark Rowlinson

My view is that at a minimum you need a provision that would provide for the abrogation of the trade agreement if in fact it turned out that Colombia was not complying with its obligations. That would be my view of an appropriate remedy--

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

John Cannis Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON

Okay.

Mr. Rowlinson, can I ask you a question? Is there any free trade agreement that you've ever supported?

4:25 p.m.

Labour Lawyer, Canadian Association of Labour Lawyers

Mark Rowlinson

The Canadian Association of Labour Lawyers has absolutely no position on trade agreements.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

John Cannis Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON

But you're not supporting this agreement.

4:25 p.m.

Labour Lawyer, Canadian Association of Labour Lawyers

Mark Rowlinson

Correct. We--

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

John Cannis Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON

I'll put it this way: is there any trade agreement that you've spoken in favour of?

4:25 p.m.

Labour Lawyer, Canadian Association of Labour Lawyers

Mark Rowlinson

Again, we have no position on trade agreements—

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

John Cannis Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON

But you have spoken against this trade agreement. Is there any agreement that you've spoken in favour of?

4:25 p.m.

Labour Lawyer, Canadian Association of Labour Lawyers

Mark Rowlinson

Our position relates specifically to the labour provisions in trade agreements.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

John Cannis Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON

Okay.

Mr. Westcott, do you have unions in your company?

4:25 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Spirits Canada / Association of Canadian Distillers

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

John Cannis Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON

Then what you are saying to us, sir, is that by not moving forward on this agreement, you would in essence be hindering the ability of your workers, union or not, to continue earning their living. Would that be the case, sir?

4:25 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Spirits Canada / Association of Canadian Distillers

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

John Cannis Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON

Thank you.

I have just some examples. We had visiting with us the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Colombia, Adriana Mejía. She gave us some examples of things they have done that really impressed us, and it wasn't just a matter of dealing with their local institutions. I will give you one example with children, children in armed conflicts.

In December 2008, Colombia voluntarily accepted the implementation of the moratorium and reporting mechanism—and I underline, Mr. Chairman, through you—in the UN Security Council Resolution 1612. So they are not just dealing within their own esoteric organizations. I think that proves that they are working with international organizations.

I read an article the other day, Mr. Chairman, that I'd be glad to pass around. We were told by the Minister of International Trade, who was with us last week, that FARC is really engaged now. They are the biggest drug cartel in the world. The other day, coincidentally, I read in the paper, about FARC, that “Colombian rebels kill five soldiers in coca field”:

Colombian FARC rebels killed five soldiers after attacking them with explosives near the border with Ecuador while troops were eradicating illegal coca crops used to make cocaine....

We know that drugs are part of a major problem, and this government, we have been told by various representatives, is trying to eliminate them. So I don't know who FARC is working for.

I'm going to close with this, because I'm going to pass the rest of my time over to my colleague Scott Brison.

When it comes to displaced people, in 2008 there were almost half a million people displaced. They're down to 114,000, if I may say so. Concerning kidnappings, in 2002 there were about 2,900; they're down to 213, Mr. Chairman, for the record. Homicides in 2002 were close to 29,000. They're down to 15,000.

I agree with the statement that was made earlier, that one is one too many. We say in Canada, too, that one homicide is one too many.

I'm going to stop here, sir. But what the statistics show is that they are making a concentrated effort, and I believe that the amendment of the proposal of my colleague, Scott Brison, is one good step toward trying to resolve it.

I'll close with that, sir, and share my time with Mr. Brison.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you to each of you for joining us today.

Monsieur Lemelin, the materials that you provided us quote a senator in Colombia, Senator Alexander López, who is a member of the Polo party, and he says: “We don't believe in free trade, period. It's simply a bad way to develop healthy relations between two nations.” He goes further and says, “Free trade is a new form of colonization and Polo rejects it.”

The Polo party in the recent legislative elections in Colombia at the Senate level garnered 7.6% of the popular vote and at the Congressional level garnered 5.9%, and in two recent polls in the presidential election the Polo party has about 5% of the support. All of the other political parties in Colombia in these elections support free trade and these FTAs.

Don't you find it a little culturally condescending to tell 95% of Colombians that what they want in terms of a free trade agreement is somehow bad for them?

4:30 p.m.

National President, Canadian Union of Postal Workers

Denis Lemelin

Sir, I can address that issue. I think everybody around the table here agrees that one of the most important things, when we're talking about trade, is fair trade. In some ways it depends. Your colleague talked about 213,000 people displaced, but the record is more than 4 million, and that's internationally. The displaced people are coming from the places that these people talked about--

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

On displaced people, we have reports from the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights that say most of the activity in terms of displacement are a result of the drug trade. They say that in many cases guerrilla groups--organizations like FARC, as an example--are responsible for this displacement in Colombia.

4:30 p.m.

National President, Canadian Union of Postal Workers

Denis Lemelin

Did you ever go to the Chocó, which is the northwestern part of Colombia, where they have the palma africana? It's not the FARC who is there; it's paramilitaries. Did you ever go to Cauca--