International Trade Committee on Nov. 28th, 2023

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

[Terry Sheehan, Liberal, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

I am telling you that President Zelenskyy.... I don't know why His Majesty's official opposition thinks they know better than President Zelenskyy.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Yes, go ahead on a point of order.

I have Mr. Seeback and Mr. Gerretsen, who also want to speak.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Madam Chair, it's just a point of order.

I commend the member on his dutiful adherence to his instructions from the Prime Minister's Office, but is he actually proposing a motion that the committee agree with a thing it just did? We just did clause-by-clause on the Canada-Ukraine free trade deal. It has passed. Now he's proposing a motion to say, “Let's also adopt a motion saying that we agree with the thing we just did.”

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

That's not a point of order.

[Terry Sheehan, Liberal, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

This is debate, Madam Chair.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Is that really what he is doing?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

He has the right to do that.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

It's just absurd.

[Terry Sheehan, Liberal, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

I motivated this, and it is on the floor.

Open up the speakers list and we can debate this.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

I know that Mr. Sheehan has the right to do that, but as the sumo wrestling match in mud that is starting could last until the end of the meeting, I want to let you know that I also have a motion to move. I already sent it last Friday.

Could we talk about it?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Right now, I'm hopefully going to Mr. Seeback and Mr. Gerretsen. At that point, I hope we'll close off this discussion and find time to deal with Mr. Savard-Tremblay's motion, which he wants to speak to.

Go ahead, Mr. Seeback.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

What I think is particularly contemptible is the attempts by Liberal members and this Liberal government to say that His Majesty's loyal opposition.... Opposing things is an act of loyalty, if we see something bad in a particular piece of legislation, which we do in this legislation.

What my friend probably doesn't understand is what the effect of carbon leakage is. Carbon leakage would mean that Ukraine could not have a carbon tax or a carbon price so low as to attract investment, because that's considered carbon leakage. It's a company choosing to invest in Ukraine because its carbon tax or carbon price is too low. That's how it's defined.

What Ukraine has is a tiny carbon price on select industries. It does not have a broad-based carbon tax like the punishing carbon tax this Prime Minister has imposed on Canada. It's a carbon tax he intends to quadruple as 800,000 Ontarians go to a food bank. That would be the fourth-largest city in Ontario—a city entirely dependent on going to a food bank for food. That's what carbon taxes do, Madam Chair. That's what they're doing to Canada.

These Liberal members suggest that our objection to that is somehow not supporting Ukraine. Quite frankly, it's despicable, because this Liberal government granted an export permit waiver for a gas turbine to be exported and to be used to pump Russian gas. Let that sink in for a minute, everyone. To the folks in the media who are here today, you should report on this. They allowed a gas turbine to go to help pump Russian gas. What does Russia use to fund its illegal war in Ukraine? It's the sale of gas and the profits from the sale of gas.

The Liberals granted the permit and they have the audacity to sit here and say that us voting against this agreement, which has now passed out of committee, is somehow betraying Ukraine. No. Giving Russia a gas turbine betrayed Ukraine.

Do you know what's worse? We now have a report that came out yesterday, saying that Canadian detonators are being used in Russian land mines. That's right. The government is so inept and incompetent in applying sanctions that Canadian detonators are finding their way into Russian land mines. Do you know what Russian land mines do? They kill Ukrainian soldiers. If you want to talk about what's actually harming Ukraine, it's the incompetence of this government. It's absolutely shameful, despicable incompetence.

To then try to come to the House of Commons and the committee to suggest that our vote, which did nothing.... Guess what? It got to committee, and it just got out of committee. It's causing no harm whatsoever.

We get to oppose bad pieces of legislation. We get to oppose your ideological obsession with carbon taxes, carbon prices and the absolute misery they've imposed on Canadians. Canadians are skipping meals because of the carbon tax. Farmers are being beaten into submission because of the carbon tax. There are farmers who are paying $10,000, $20,000 or $30,000 a month in carbon taxes. That gets passed on to Canadian consumers.

Guess what? Our vote is not doing anything to harm Ukraine. We are principally opposed to you guys ramming in this terminology for the first time ever in a trade agreement. That's what we object to. We get to object to that. That does not cause a scintilla of harm to Ukraine. Do you know what does? It's giving Russia a bloody gas turbine and detonators used in land mines.

You guys should all watch what you say, because your behaviour on this is despicable and you don't have a leg to stand on.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Go ahead, Mr. Gerretsen.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Despite the fact that everything Mr. Seeback just said about the price on pollution in Canada is patently incorrect, the Conservatives' issue with the carbon tax is just another red herring. We've hit a new low when Conservatives are trying to avoid talking about a motion by starting to actually talk straight to reporters in a committee meeting and telling reporters what they should be reporting on.

We've hit a new low, because Conservatives are now in a position where they are having some serious buyer's remorse over the way they voted on this. These four members have now voted—not once, but twice—against Ukraine, just moments ago.

As I was sitting here, Madam Chair, because I had a lot of time to think about this during the last hour or so, I was thinking that Mr. Genuis and all the Conservatives were talking about supporting Ukraine by providing weapons. It's funny, because in the 2022 budget the Government of Canada put $500 million into supporting Ukraine with weapons, and every single Conservative member voted against it. I know it's easy to say, well, it's the budget, so they had to vote against it. That kind of does make sense. I can understand that.

Do you know what I did, Madam Chair, in the time I was sitting here? I went back and looked to see how Mr. Seeback, Mr. Genuis, Mr. Baldinelli and Mr. Martel spoke on the budget of 2022. They all spoke to the budget. Well, I should put it this way: None of them spoke about the weapons that we were providing to Ukraine in the budget. Even if they had supported the weapons going to Ukraine, in which the government invested half a billion dollars in the last budget, you would have thought that at least one of them who was so passionate about the issue would have stood up during that time of the budget and at least said, “You know what? I don't support the budget, because I can't, because I'm in the opposition, and that's just what we do. However, I want to say that I support the aid going to Ukraine.”

They didn't. Why didn't they, Madam Chair? It's because the issue right now about how we should be talking about ammunition and weapons is a red herring. That's it. They're looking for justification to prove to the over two million Ukrainian Canadians why they voted against it before and why they're doubling down on it now.

I got a real kick out of it when I heard Mr. Genuis earlier say, “what Ukraine needs”. Actually, what Ukraine needs is for Conservatives to start listening to the Ukrainian President when the President tells them that they need this trade agreement. What Ukraine needs is for Conservatives to listen to the Ukrainian Canadian Congress when they say what they need. What Ukraine doesn't need are people like Vladimir Putin or the Conservatives who tell them what they need.

Do you know who else tells—

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Do your due diligence.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Do you know who else tells—

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Mr. Gerretsen has the floor.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Go ahead on a point of order.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

I raised a point of order first, Madam Chair.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

You never talked about Ukraine unless you were using it as a partisan matter. You didn't care before and you don't care now. You're just a partisan hack.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

It's Mr. Seeback, and then Mr. Savard-Tremblay.