Justice Committee on Nov. 13th, 2007

[A voice]

It was 48 hours.

[Derek Lee, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

It was 48? All right.

I am ready to move some of these motions, Mr. Chair, if you're ready to receive them.

[The Chair, Conservative, Art Hanger]

I am, if all members have had an opportunity to review.

[Derek Lee, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

We have just heard from the clerk that they're identical to last time. If members are prepared to proceed, I'm prepared to move them.

[An hon. member]

Go, go, go.

[The Chair, Conservative, Art Hanger]

The members are prepared to proceed.

[Derek Lee, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

All right.

These are not numbered, but I will move the first page: services of analysts, as written; subcommittee on agenda and procedure, as written; quorum of three, as written; documents in both official languages, as written; working meals, as written; and allocating time for questioning, as written.

I will move all of those.

[The Chair, Conservative, Art Hanger]

Is there a seconder for the motion? You don't need a seconder, okay.

[Rob Moore, Conservative, Fundy Royal, NB]

There are some I wanted to make amendment to, if it's the will of the committee.

On the subcommittee of agenda and procedure, we can all see what it says there. I move an amendment that it would read:

That the subcommittee on agenda and procedure be composed of the chair, the two vice-chairs, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice,

--that would be me--

a second member of the Liberal Party and the member from the New Democratic Party.

Quorum of the subcommittee shall consist of at least three members, one of whom must be from the government. Each member of the subcommittee shall be permitted to have one assistant to attend at any meetings of the subcommittee on agenda and procedure.

That would be my amendment.

[The Chair, Conservative, Art Hanger]

In essence, you would be adding yourself as parliamentary secretary.

[Rob Moore, Conservative, Fundy Royal, NB]

If no one minds.

It would be myself, the two vice-chairs, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice, a second member from the Liberal Party--I think that is a new addition as well--and of course the member from the New Democratic Party.

[The Chair, Conservative, Art Hanger]

That would be reflective of the other opposition parties. So it would be an additional member from the Liberal Party, plus the parliamentary secretary.

[Derek Lee, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Could I suggest that we stand that particular section down and that we adopt the non-controversial ones now.

[The Chair, Conservative, Art Hanger]

Monsieur Ménard.

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga, QC]

I am ready to pass it, but I would like to remind the parliamentary secretary that, when he was in opposition, he systematically opposed parliamentary secretaries becoming members of steering committees. It is a little sad when one's position in government is different from one's position in opposition. Even you, Mr. Chair, moved amendments saying that parliamentary secretaries should not be part of steering committees. You used to say that the committee should function completely autonomously and without interference. I am ready to vote for the amendment, but we have to have some consistency; we cannot say one thing when we are in government and the opposite when we are on the other side. I have no objection to the parliamentary secretary being there, but I do remind him of the past.

[The Chair, Conservative, Art Hanger]

Ms. Jennings.

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

Perhaps we could achieve Mr. Ménard's objective by saying “a second government member as long as it is not the parliamentary secretary.”

That is a joke. I withdraw my comment.

[members]

Ah, ah!

[The Chair, Conservative, Art Hanger]

Mr. Comartin, please.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It's been our party's position that we've been opposed to having parliamentary secretaries playing this role because of the need for independence of the committee from direct influence from the government, and I assume that position would remain the same. I would prefer to have Mr. Lee's recommendation followed, that we put this off so we can get directions from our caucuses before we vote on this.

Just to finish, Mr. Chair, I'm concerned that if we're doing it in this committee, we are going to be faced with the same motions in other committees and I want a systematic response from my party.

[The Chair, Conservative, Art Hanger]

Mr. Lee.

[Derek Lee, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Mr. Chair, if this is the only section the government wishes to alter, we may get through it; we have two hours. But my experience is that we're going to end up with a lot of debate about this.

I know, Mr. Moore, you haven't explained the change. It's not my recollection that the steering committee was dysfunctional in any way the last time. My very firm view is that it would be inappropriate for a committee of this House to structure a parliamentary secretary as an explicit piece of the structure. I would have no objection to Mr. Moore, as a member of the committee, being on the steering committee. But for us to patently incorporate a government office into our committee structure runs contrary to the constitutional function of the House. Mr. Moore will recall very clearly, as may some other government members, the position of the Conservative Party and its predecessor in the last Parliament, where they actually moved motions that parliamentary secretaries not even be allowed to sit on committees.

The government party has made a huge about-face here, and it invites from opposition a number of nouns and adjectives I'm not going to use now. But I would at least hope that Mr. Moore would be in a position to explain why the previous steering committee structure didn't work well enough from his point of view and why it is necessary for a steering committee to create a committee of six people, which would make it much more cumbersome, much more difficult to get the members together. The main function of that committee is talking about future business, not selecting it, and the selection of witnesses. Perhaps Mr. Moore could address that.

I'm going to debate this at some length, if I can, and I will continue to debate it here today. I'd like to get the routine motions passed, but I'd like to hear Mr. Moore as well. I'm suggesting to the chair that we stand down this particular one until we get all the non-controversial routine motions passed, and then we could continue discussion on this and any other matter there might be an amendment to.

[The Chair, Conservative, Art Hanger]

I would be very interested in hearing Mr. Moore's statement as well, but I also have one of my own that I would like to contribute to this debate. It might be a good move right now to actually move the rest of these, pass them, and then we'll come right back to this particular part of the motion on the subcommittee on agenda and procedure.

Let's move ahead. Are there any additions to any of the others? We should go through with this motion of Mr. Lee with the exception of the second point on the page, subcommittee on agenda and procedure.

[Rob Moore, Conservative, Fundy Royal, NB]

All in favour? On the first page I had another change, hopefully much less controversial.

[The Chair, Conservative, Art Hanger]

Let's go through it this way then.