Justice Committee on Nov. 27th, 2007

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Are you saying I jumped to conclusions that you're supportive of the legislation?

[Sue Barnes, Liberal, London West, ON]

Yes, you're jumping to conclusions, Mr. Nicholson, but we can correct those conclusions.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

It may be wishful thinking on my part, but in any case, please have a look at it and see what you think.

[Sue Barnes, Liberal, London West, ON]

I will move on to another area, the drug courts in this country.

For information purposes, how many drug courts now exist? What I'm most concerned about is whether or not you are proceeding, as minister, with the expansion of drug courts into other areas of the country and when we can expect those. I see that there are some funds here in the estimates for drug courts, so could you tell us exactly what your plans are and whether or not, specifically, there will be new drug courts? I know these were planned. I just want to see whether we are following through.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

In answer to your initial question, there are six drug treatment court sites in Canada: Vancouver, Edmonton, Regina, Winnipeg, Toronto, and Ottawa. And just so you know, I am very supportive of this particular program. It provides an alternative, in my opinion, particularly in areas where drugs are a major problem, for getting youth, usually young people, out of the system and getting them the kind of treatment they need. So I'm not announcing any new drug treatment courts, but as you quite correctly pointed out, I'm asking for funding to support the drug treatment courts we have. Again, I think this is a good idea, and the feedback I generally get on these things is that they make a positive step.

[Sue Barnes, Liberal, London West, ON]

We have one Gladue court in Toronto. Are there any plans for expansion, for further Gladue courts across the country?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

I'm not making any announcement with respect to any further drug courts, but again, the supplementary estimates--

[Sue Barnes, Liberal, London West, ON]

This is Gladue courts, not drug courts.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Gladue?

[Sue Barnes, Liberal, London West, ON]

There's one in Toronto. Perhaps your assistant can help.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

With respect to the aboriginal justice system, again, those are part of these estimates, and I'm open to suggestions regarding moving that forward, but we're committed to that. One of the things, quite frankly, I've liked about that system is that--shortly after becoming justice minister I had a briefing with respect to that--there are good results as a result of the intervention. Of course, we have a constitutional responsibility with respect to aboriginal Canadians, so I think it's a good fit all around. We provide them with some assistance to assist them, and of course we have those constitutional responsibilities.

[The Chair, Conservative, Art Hanger]

Thank you, Ms. Barnes.

Monsieur Ménard.

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga, QC]

Mr. Minister, I thank you for appearing before us today.

First of all, you are certainly one of the most enterprising ministers that Parliament has seen in many years. If you were paid by bill, you would certainly be a rich man. I imagine you are itching to table yet another bill this week.

Having said that, I would like to ask you three questions. You must be aware of the fact that a vast survey dealing with various issues has been carried out over several months involving 10,000 Canadians. I do not know who paid for this survey. Was it your department, the Prime Minister's Office or the Privy Council? I did not notice if there were questions on the death penalty, but there were questions on rehabilitation, on tolerance and on criminal measures. I would first of all like to know who paid for the survey, which the newspaper La Presse in Quebec made a big deal about, particularly journalist Mr. Hugo de Grandpré?

Furthermore, I'm very happy that your department is asking for an additional vote of $53 million for support services. These are funds intended for the provinces and territories to support youth justice services. If I understand correctly, these are funds that would be added to the National Strategy for Crime Prevention. I would like to hear a little more from you on that and I would like to know how much money, of this $53 million, will be allocated to Quebec.

If I understand correctly, you are asking for another $100 million for the National Drug Strategy. I will have the opportunity to come back to that, but I would also like more information.

I would therefore like to know who paid for the survey of 10,000 Canadians at the beginning of the year. What are we to understand about the $53 million to support youth and how much will Quebec receive?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Monsieur Ménard, on the questions you asked about the polls, my understanding is that we'll have that information for you in the next couple of minutes.

At this time, the resources for youth justice services, the drug prevention programs, are not allocated on a provincial basis. For the most part we try to work with community-based programs. I gave an example of one in the Regional Municipality of Niagara. Our experience in working with community-based programs is that you get good results with people who know what's happening.

I would obviously want the Province of Quebec to get its fair share. If you know of individuals, communities, or organizations that want to access those resources, please encourage them to do so. The money has been allotted and the need is there, so we want to be as helpful as possible.

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga, QC]

I now have two more questions. Have you, as minister, received a copy of the survey I am talking about? Was it brought to your attention? I am talking about 10,000 Canadians who were questioned; that is considerable. If not, I would be happy to send you a copy, but I cannot imagine that a man with your intellectual voracity would not have seen this survey.

I would like to hear you give us more details about the $53 million for additional youth services I was referring to. If I understand correctly, it is separate from the National Crime Prevention Strategy, which Mr. Stockwell Day talked about. Certainly there are many organizations working on crime prevention in Hochelaga-Maisonneuve. I would like to know exactly what it will be used for. Can you give us some examples?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Mr. Sims has some comment on that.

[John Sims, Deputy Minister and Deputy Attorney General of Canada, Department of Justice]

Mr. Ménard, I will start with the issue of the survey. I do not have all the details at my fingertips, but if I understood correctly, we are in fact sharing the costs of these surveys. On the one hand, there is the Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, which is part of Statistics Canada. The Department of Justice also provides funds to Statistics Canada to pay for these surveys. I cannot tell you what the specific figures are now, but we can provide you with those details if you wish.

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga, QC]

I cannot imagine that the minister has not received this. If that is the case, his communications section has dropped the ball. This is a survey that was discussed in the press, and 10,000 Canadians responded to a certain number of questions. If the minister has not read it, it really must be brought to his attention.

[John Sims]

I'm sure some of our officials have copies of that survey, and could pass it on to the minister. I do not know who paid for that, and what the percentage would be.

A question was asked earlier on as to whether or not there were questions on the death penalty in the surveys. No, there have been no questions dealing with the death penalty recently.

As far as the $53 million is concerned, $32.5 million serve to renew these funds. Obviously, that is true... Once again, unfortunately, this is an issue of readaptation and youth rehabilitation. The comprehensive amount for all of that is $167 million.

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga, QC]

I would like to know who has access to that. Personally, I have never heard about it in my community. My riding is in the east of Montreal, in an area that has had its share of difficulties. How do organizations get access to these funds? How is this broken down? I think it would be important that your department, perhaps through our clerk, send us a little more information.

I am aware of the National Crime Prevention Strategy, but I have never heard anything about departmental aid to organizations or for youth.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

These are the contributions we enter into with the provincial and territorial governments to continue funding of that. We'll be glad to provide you with further information.

We participate in a number of funding programs with the other levels of government, and they all pertain to youth justice systems and facilitating youth within the system. We have entered into those, and I think it's important for us to continue. That's where that $53 million is going, Monsieur Ménard. Again, we would be pleased to provide further details on that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Art Hanger]

Thank you, Mr. Ménard.

Mr. Comartin.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Nicholson and Mr. Sims, for being here.

I asked in advance for you to look at the amount that was attributed to the Iacobucci inquiry. I was a bit concerned.

I just want a confirmation that the amounts that are in the justice department's figures are not duplicates of the amounts that are in the public safety and national security department.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

They're not duplicates, Mr. Comartin. And we're speaking, just so you know, about $3.977 million in these supplementary estimates.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Right.

I assume those figures are not going to be ended this year and that there will be an additional amount in the coming budget.

Have you a projection as to how much more the Department of Justice will spend on that inquiry?