Justice Committee on Feb. 9th, 2009

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

I'll be discussing that with the government House leader, but it is one of those issues that I want to bring forward.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

There was a newspaper article this morning about your compatriot in Public Safety not spending money. I note from the report that we got from the Federal Ombudsman for Victims of Crime that that department was slow in getting up. Did they spend their allotted funds in the previous budget year?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

I'm not saying whether they spent it all, Mr. Comartin. I don't want to say that. I can tell you that I'll pass your comments on to the Minister of Public Safety and inform him that he has left some money unspent.

I don't know what exactly you're referring to, except—

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

It was $24 million out of a budget of $43 million, and it was specifically for prevention.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

I know that we're moving ahead in all of these different areas. I can tell you that one of the things I am particularly proud of is the Office of the Federal Ombudsman for Victims of Crime.

You may remember that it was first recommended in the year 2000. A couple of administrations did not act on it, and approximately two years ago we moved forward with it, appointing the first federal ombudsman for victims of crime. His role, of course, is to get the office up and running. I have watched that very carefully and am very pleased with the initial results. Again, as I indicated to you a couple of days ago in Parliament, I tabled the first report of it.

So this is a success story. Standing up for victims and giving them an outlet or place to express their concerns, or their suggestions with respect to the issues that affect them, I think is a very important component of what we have done. Again, who can argue with standing up for victims and law-abiding Canadians? This is a step in the right direction.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

I think the only argument you'd get, Mr. Minister, is that I don't understand why it took a full year to just get his office furniture and--

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

I don't think that's the case. I visited that office, and it's not a question of getting the furniture. It was up and running. And I indicated to him that he had to be very careful who he hired, to make sure he had people who were sensitive to all the issues that were before him, and I believe he acted in an expeditious manner.

You may disagree with me, but I believe it has moved forward and I think this is one of the great success stories in the justice area.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Just to stay with dollar figures, in terms of this information that came out about public safety, there are a number of programs within Justice. You mentioned the family justice one, but there are others--legal aid, the victims of crime, the aboriginal community funding.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

It's an impressive list, I know.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Mr. Minister, I'm not quite sure how this information came out. I think it was the newspaper digging it out. Is there any mechanism within your department where at the end of the fiscal period you report specifically on funds that were not spent and in what categories they were not spent?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

My understanding is that a very complete documentation of what we have, what we need, and what we're going to need in the future is done on a regular basis. This is the whole basis, and I think you and I had this discussion last year, with respect to the various estimates that take place during the course of the year. I believe they do watch us very carefully, and certainly that is my instruction and admonition to them, to do that and to watch very carefully the expenditures on behalf of the people of Canada.

I think you're getting the officials, who may be coming as soon as I am done, and you can question them further to satisfy yourself. Again, we're not the largest department in the Government of Canada, but we're very careful with the funds that have been given to us.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Mr. Minister, was your department consulted for an opinion on the Omar Khadr file? And were any funds spent from your department this year on that file?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

I never comment on specific legal advice that's provided by the Department of Justice. And with respect to your question as to whether there were any funds, that's something we can look into, Mr. Comartin.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Would it show up if you had in fact spent funds on that? Would it show up in a separate line item?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

It's hard to say. If you're asking me about any specific legal advice, we give legal advice on a regular basis to many government departments and agencies, and again, that's what Parliament and the people of this country tasked us to do.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

With regards to the Iacobucci inquiry, is there a line item somewhere as to how much your department has spent up to this point or what they will spend by the end of this fiscal period?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

I'll have a look at that, Mr. Comartin, and we will forward that information to you.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you.

Those are all the questions I have, Minister.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

Thank you, Mr. Comartin.

We'll go to Monsieur Petit. I understand you're sharing your time with Mr. Moore. I'll let you decide.

Monsieur Petit first.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good day, Minister. As we begin a new year, I'd like to welcome you here once again. I'd also like to extend greetings to my colleagues. We have been together for two or three sessions now.

Mr. Nicholson, I'm hoping that you can shed some light on a particular problem. Organized criminal networks are currently operating. Of course, we all have our own definitions of what these networks are: street gangs, the mafia, and so forth. In reality, these criminal networks are involved in drug trafficking. Thousands of tons of drugs are pouring into Montreal. These networks engage in the trafficking of persons and in prostitution. They practise extortion and use virtually every single dock and airport to make money. They strike fear in the hearts of Montrealers, in the hearts of our fathers and mothers.

The problem is that even though they are responsible for a lot of the drugs that come into Montreal, it's impossible for us to apprehend all of these criminals. People have the impression that there is no crime in Montreal. Yet, thousands of Montreal youth become totally dependent every day on drugs. We're not able to apprehend the criminals, and yet people are being led to believe that crime rates are dropping.This week, the pimp of a young woman who had been abused and forced into prostitution for two years was arrested. It didn't happen overnight. He was able to go about his business for two years as if nothing was amiss, even though he was committing a crime every day.

Minister, organized crime networks pose a serious problem, domestically as well as internationally. This type of activity knows no borders. It poses a threat to the Canadian and Quebec economies and a threat to public health and safety. What measures do you intend to bring in to reassure members of the public? Just because the statistics don't show it doesn't mean that crimes are not being committed every day.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

There's no question, Mr. Chair, that this is a growing problem in Canada. As recently as earlier today I was on the phone with the public safety minister of British Columbia with respect to the challenges they are facing in that particular province. I indicated to him, and am telling you, that we have begun the steps to crack down on this.

You will remember, in the Tackling Violent Crime Act, the provisions with respect to bail as they relate to people who are charged with serious gun crimes. We changed the bail provisions. I've had police already tell me that this is exactly what they need to try to break up these organizations so that the individual who has repeatedly shown himself or herself to be involved in gun crimes is not immediately back out on the street. This is a help. The mandatory sentences for those individuals who commit serious gun crimes is a step in the right direction. But I believe that we have to go further.

When I introduced changes to the drug laws of this country, I indicated that we, of course, want to help those unfortunate individuals who find themselves becoming addicted to drugs. At the same time, we sent a very clear message to those people who are in the business, for instance, of importing drugs into this country or of exporting drugs and to those people who are selling drugs to our young people. We sent them a very clear message, and those are the mandatory jail provisions in that particular legislation.

Here's what police and law enforcement agencies tell me. The people who are bringing drugs into this country--this is not the person who, one-off, is experimenting with a drug on a Saturday night--are people who are generally involved with organized crime. These are people involved with gangs. These are the people who are importing drugs into this country. And we have to send a very clear message to them that if you get involved with that kind of behaviour, you can expect jail time in this country. I think that's an appropriate message to send out to those individuals.

We're not talking about a person who just made a bad mistake one afternoon. No, no, we're talking about people who, as you say, with their criminal activity are in the business, quite frankly, of destroying or attempting to destroy the society in which we live. This cannot be tolerated.

We have brought steps forward to direct attention to this, and we will continue to do so. I thank you for the question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

Monsieur Petit, we have approximately one and a half minutes left.

Mr. Moore, did you want to proceed?

[Rob Moore, Conservative, Fundy Royal, NB]

Sure.

Thank you, Minister, for appearing here today. We appreciate your presence here.

You touched on something earlier that I wanted to ask about, and that is the ombudsman for victims of crime and representation for victims and the place of victims in the process. I know that for a long time people were calling for support for victims. Certainly in my community in New Brunswick there's the sense that in the past, in the criminal justice system, the victims often got left behind in the process. We know that having representation for victims of crime was recommended in 2000.

We see the commitment that's been made and the moneys that have been put aside. I'm wondering if you can speak more generally on the need for support for victims of crime and why that's important to victims.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Standing up for victims and law-abiding Canadians is a priority of this government. It's absolutely essential that we take their concerns and we take them seriously.

Again, as you pointed out, a committee recommended in the year 2000 that we establish the federal ombudsman for victims of crime. It wasn't acted on through two administrations, but it is something that I was very pleased our government was acting on. Let's face it, there are groups, organizations, and committees that represent every cause on earth in Ottawa, and I think it's only appropriate that there would be a specific office for people to deal with nothing other than the issues of victims in this country and their concerns.

I have to tell you as a footnote to this that one of the great champions of victims' rights, Gary Rosenfeldt, who along with his wife Sharon has been a pioneer in this area, just recently passed away. That's a great loss to people who take victims' rights very seriously. But I know he and his wife were very pleased to see us move forward on that. And I was very clear when I met on a number of occasions with the new federal ombudsman that that's his focus. It could never get moved from that to other issues; it's victims and what they have to say, and making their issues his priority is the priority of that office.

So I think that this will be a permanent feature of our judicial system in this country. This office having been established, I believe that for the foreseeable future every government will recognize that this is an important aspect of the criminal justice system and that we need that kind of an office.

So again, I'm very, very pleased we were part of that and we got it up and running.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

You have five minutes, Mr. Dosanjh.