Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to thank the witnesses from the resource centre.
I also want to thank our colleague, Scott Andrews, who, in untypical humility, really, underplays the role he played in bringing this forward. I think there's going to be unanimity, and it was done without any fanfare or politics, so congratulations to you. Well done.
And lastly, but really firstly, to the Bagbys, it's a very compelling situation that we have before us, and we all feel quite moved by your testimony. We could call this Zachary's law. We could make it fact specific. It does relate to a number of fact situations that the resource centre brought forward. But I would urge committee members and the general populace and politicians in general to look at laws that we make in a more general sense, so they can affect in a positive way or a less negative way the general criminal law. That's why we might do a disservice in narrowing the discussion today. I haven't heard, in my four years, a lay person suffering from grief and having a high emotional hold on an issue more succinctly talk about reforms that could be made than you, Mr. Bagby, in your five points.
On your first two points, with respect to statistics, we do have those resources, and immediately after this meeting I will make inquiries, for the committee's benefit as well, from Juristat, our service, with respect to the issues of recidivism and how often guilt is actually the case in murder and capital cases. So thank you for that point.
I'll skip to your fifth point, which is the gist of my question, that murder is not just another crime. In fact, it unites the members that we're very concerned about violent crime, the rise in violent crime in this country, which includes of course life-ending crimes and life-changing crimes. The idea that murder is not given the hierarchy it should be, and violent crime is, is something we can all agree on.
In fact, getting into my point about section 515 and show cause, you'll notice in the beginning of it, in every case, there has to be this consideration of release, except for those offences in 469. You might all look and say, 469, those must be really serious crimes, and I suppose they are, but it shows how outdated our laws are. They go back to the time of the kings and queens, when sedition and treason...I don't know the last sedition case that I've ever heard of. So in the hierarchy in this old law we give precedence to crimes that aren't as heinous as murder. Murder should be given a priority that it is not given in section 515.
In section 515 we might consider going forward, reversing the onus that has been reversed. We may all be aware that the crown has to show why, on the balance of probabilities, someone should not be released except in certain circumstances. We might look at that, because a defence lawyer might well be able to meet that burden and the balance of probabilities. It's a suggestion that comes to mind based on your reasons.
My question to both the resource centre and to you, Mr. Bagby, would be this. Do you see some broader amendments or improvements that we can make to section 515 in general? I've suggested one, the reversing of the onus, the hierarchy being changed with respect to certain circumstances where it's not really allowed.
And overall, my second question, because I think Mrs. Bagby is particularly interested in this question, and I know it's not in the purview of this act, is this. Is our extradiction process so unwieldy, even between cooperative and friendly states, that we must urge other ministries of the government to move on the issue of expediting extradiction in capital or in murder cases?
If you look at the facts of this situation and some other extraditable offences, the delay is often quite inordinate, and it does often lead to other offences occurring that wouldn't otherwise occur. That's quite aside from the aspect that people are basically flouting their freedom against the rights I think of people to feel that there ought to be a reckoning. You could say punishment, but that's only one aspect of the Criminal Code in sentencing. But they're flouting, by their freedom, the conclusion--or the reckoning--for what their actions are.
That's a two-part question, I guess. First, what other reforms could we look at within section 515 or otherwise, and what about expediting this expedition process?