Justice Committee on June 3rd, 2010
Evidence of meeting #21 for Justice and Human Rights in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was youth.
A recording is available from Parliament.
On the agenda
MPs speaking
Also speaking
- Simon Fournel-Laberge As an Individual
- Gaylene Schellenberg Lawyer, Legislation and Law Reform, Canadian Bar Association
- Scott Bergman Section Member, National Criminal Justice Section, Canadian Bar Association
- William Trudell Chair, Canadian Council of Criminal Defence Lawyers
- Julie McAuley Director, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, Statistics Canada
- Martha Mackinnon Executive Director, Justice for Children and Youth
- Agnes Samler President, Defence for Children International-Canada
- Les Horne Executive Director, Defence for Children International-Canada
- Mia Dauvergne Senior Analyst, Policing Services Program, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, Statistics Canada
- Craig Grimes Chief/Advisor, Courts Program, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, Statistics Canada
- Irwin Elman Provincial Advocate, Office of the Provincial Advocate for Children and Youth (Ontario)
- Lee Tustin Advocate for Children and Youth, Office of the Provincial Advocate for Children and Youth (Ontario)
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
11:55 a.m.
Section Member, National Criminal Justice Section, Canadian Bar Association
I don't have that. I don't know what everything else around it is and I don't know the scope of the study, so it's very hard for me to comment on it.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
Brent Rathgeber Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
Is it your impression, based on whatever studies you're familiar with, that violent crime among Canadian youth is up or down in the last ten years, or since 2003, when the new legislation came into force?
11:55 a.m.
Section Member, National Criminal Justice Section, Canadian Bar Association
I hadn't walked away with that impression from the studies I reviewed. But in fairness, that's not why we're here today. We're not here quoting study after study. There are other people who can do that, I'm sure, for the committee.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
11:55 a.m.
Section Member, National Criminal Justice Section, Canadian Bar Association
That's based on the study that I mentioned, which indicates so.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
Brent Rathgeber Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
In the study that you're referring to, is violent youth crime up or down, or is it not broken down?
Noon
Section Member, National Criminal Justice Section, Canadian Bar Association
I believe it says it's down.
Noon
Conservative
Brent Rathgeber Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
Mr. Trudell, you look as if you might have something to add. No?
Noon
Chair, Canadian Council of Criminal Defence Lawyers
I think if you do careful studies and call experts, you're going to find that violent crime is down right across the country. You will find, however, that there are pockets where violent crime seems to be on the increase, and you've addressed this issue in relation to your organized crime study. You have gang problems in some centres.
I don't think that figure can be taken as you present it. I think the trend in crime is down, including violent crime.
There are of course the serious offences that happen—they're almost anecdotal—that cause a lot of attention among the public. Those are the ones concerning which we have to be careful about changing the Criminal Code in response to certain cases. But quite frankly, I disagree with that statistic.
Noon
Conservative
Brent Rathgeber Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
But may I ask, should we as legislators be happy and satisfied that 50,000 incidents of violent crime per year are committed among youth? Or should we look to fine-tune the system to try to lower those numbers?
Noon
Chair, Canadian Council of Criminal Defence Lawyers
Well, there's no question. Nobody in this room--whether we're defence counsel, crown, police, legislator, or whatever—none of us likes violent crime. But you don't sledgehammer it. What you do is gather experts and ask whether there really is a problem. And fine-tuning is quite different from changing the philosophy of legislation that's working. That's my response.
Noon
Conservative
The Chair Ed Fast
Thank you very much.
Given the fact that we started about ten minutes late, we're just going to do one quick round of two minutes each. We'll go to the Liberals and then to the Bloc and then to one from the government.
Ms. Mendes.
June 3rd, 2010 / noon
Liberal
Alexandra Mendes Brossard—La Prairie, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Fournel-Laberge, my questions are for you. I think that we might have got the wrong impression of your position on incarceration.
First of all, I would like to congratulate you for your testimony and the courage you have shown. It also shows that the system does work, that we can rehabilitate a young person to build up his confidence to come and speak before parliamentarians.
I would like to ask you first where were you rehabilitated?
Noon
As an Individual
It was at the Maison de l'Apprenti and at the Résidence Taché.