As in karate?
Evidence of meeting #68 for Justice and Human Rights in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sport.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #68 for Justice and Human Rights in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sport.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:50 p.m.
President, Canadian Medical Association
Yes, but not with blows to the head.
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
Robert Goguen Conservative Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB
Wow. I don't know. In watching some of the karate matches, it seems to me that there are plenty of blows to the head. They're not all blows to the head, but they're not exceptional.
3:50 p.m.
President, Canadian Medical Association
Yes, I'm not an expert on karate myself, so I'm sorry if I can't comment any further on that.
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
Robert Goguen Conservative Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB
All right. I'm just trying to gather what the striking distinction is between the more traditional sports and perhaps this sport, and I don't capture that. I'm sorry.
Those are my questions.
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Mike Wallace
Thank you, sir.
Our next questioner, from the Liberal Party, is Mr. Pacetti.
April 15th, 2013 / 3:50 p.m.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses for appearing.
I don't want to repeat the same line of questioning, I guess, because we seem to see a lot of blows in all sports, whether intentional or unintentional. We'd like to see the focus be on making sports more secure, whether blows to the head are legal or not legal. We see it in sports like hockey and football. It's not supposed to be legal but it happens anyway, and it sometimes goes unpunished. I understand where you're going with this, but it doesn't necessarily mean that I agree.
I'm aware of one study in particular that was done in 2006 with the Johns Hopkins University, in which they stated that concussions from MMA combat were not more susceptible to head injuries. I'm just wondering if you have any recent studies that would help your position.
3:50 p.m.
President, Canadian Medical Association
I'm sorry, but if you could restate that, because a concussion is a head injury, so—
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
Do you have any studies that would back your position on banning? You have said in your paper here that the CMA has called for a ban on boxing and—
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
—there doesn't seem to be any study proving that there are more head injuries, whether it be in MMA or any other sport. There's no reason for you to say that you should be opposed to the bill. I don't see the facts.
3:50 p.m.
President, Canadian Medical Association
Well, we have referenced a study with respect to boxing, which is blows to the head—
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
3:50 p.m.
President, Canadian Medical Association
We're also opposed to boxing. The CMA has a policy opposed to boxing, too.
Given that there are also blows to the head in this sport, which are intentional, we have said that there aren't many studies saying exactly what the rate of severe head injuries is with mixed martial arts—
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
Is there a study that the medical association is working on?
3:50 p.m.
President, Canadian Medical Association
We're not in and of ourselves studying it, but I understand that there are some studies going on. I don't have right in front of me the names of those studies, but I was just reading about it. There's one study—
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
You would rather keep it illegal rather than make it more secure or safe?
3:50 p.m.
President, Canadian Medical Association
Listen, our goal, my goal, is to prevent injury and promote health. I'm an emergency physician. Injury prevention and promoting health are the two main things that I'm interested in. As an emergency physician, I know that when people get struck in the head it can lead to concussion and also severe head injury.
There are studies being started as to the rate and severity of injuries. We already know that there have been people killed from mixed martial arts, from blows to the head. I don't know the actual rate, and I don't think it is known into the future what the long-term sequelae are, but we know there are serious potential problems. So yes, it's our role to continue to advocate against this.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
So you don't have statistics even though—we'll use UFC as an example—they have strict rules and they're certified medically. There's no proof whether all of that is the way to conduct these fights and whether they are more secure. It's just the medical association coming out with a position. Shouldn't you have a bit more facts or statistics? Shouldn't there be something?
3:50 p.m.
President, Canadian Medical Association
You're talking about harm reduction right now, so—
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
The debate or the discussion seems to revolve around concussions, so whether it be concussions or injuries in general, it's up to you to perhaps provide us with some statistics. I'm not saying that for somebody stepping into the ring it will be a joyride and they won't be susceptible to getting injured. I'm just wondering about the statistics. We'd like to compare it to other sports, and the discussion has been comparing it to other sports.
3:55 p.m.
President, Canadian Medical Association
Those statistics for the long-term effects do not exist yet because those studies have not been completed. There are studies starting, but I don't have the names of them in front of me right now.
We do know that if you strike people in the head, whether it be in a bar fight or in a ring, whether it be sanctioned or unsanctioned, no matter how hard you try to protect ahead of time, there will be potential injuries. Sometimes there are very serious injuries—
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
Sorry, I don't mean to interrupt but we have limited time.
There are studies going on now with other sports in terms of head injuries, such as those related to hockey or football. Isn't there a correlation, or isn't there anything being done from that end?
3:55 p.m.
President, Canadian Medical Association
Well, we're not talking about those sports, but we do know that head hits in such things as hockey and football are very serious, and people have long-term effects from them. In fact, I understand there's a lawsuit going on in the U.S. from NFL players against the NFL for the effects of concussions during their careers.
We do know that those things happen, so it's our position that we should advocate to prevent those things from happening rather than waiting 10 years out to find out the long-term effects of many hits to the head, and then say, look, we should have done something about it.
That is our position.