Justice Committee on Dec. 3rd, 2013

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

Do you know why Ontario isn't doing this? Because 95% of it is in Ontario, 5% is in Quebec.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

You don't have any more time left.

I'll let you answer that one question, and then we'll move on.

[Flory Doucas]

There have been controls on the machinery that's used. When Imperial Tobacco closed its plant in Montreal, the machinery disappeared, and one wonders where that went. There are controls and licensing on the importing of machinery parts. That's certainly something that the federal government should be looking into, including all transport and import of raw materials, paper, and filters.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

Thank you very much.

Thank you for those questions and answers.

Our final questioner for this panel today is from the New Democratic Party, Mr. Kellway.

There may be bells in three minutes.

[Matthew Kellway, NDP, Beaches—East York, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Grant, given that you are a former police officer, and with respect to your comments in your opening statement and in response to subsequent questions, I was surprised to hear from Mr. Saint-Denis, the senior counsel for the department, in his testimony earlier about not just the lack, but the absence of consultation with police forces. You made a point, I think quite strenuously, about the necessity for cooperation and collaboration amongst the various parties, both federal and provincial, but also the engagement of police forces directly into solving these issues. I'm wondering what recommendations you have, not even necessarily specific to BillC-10, around processes for cooperation and collaboration and for the introduction of new criminal provisions.

[Gary Grant]

I agree with you. In my time in policing I was always frustrated at the number of investigations that maybe weren't eliminated, but were compromised and hampered by the fact that people didn't consult with one another. The RCMP did their thing, Toronto did their thing, the OPP did their thing, and there wasn't any process of information-sharing in the beginning.

If that had been undertaken, just as we're suggesting now.... I've even spoken to people in the federal government. Treasury Board hasn't really been on the same page as Justice, and it's the same way provincially. I just think there has to be some sort of multi-jurisdictional task force put together from the federal, provincial, and municipal levels, including maybe the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, and first nations people to sit down and try to come up with a coordinated response to this that will be effective and doable.

[Matthew Kellway, NDP, Beaches—East York, ON]

It strikes me that it's not a simple task.

I read for Mr. Saint-Denis the synopsis of a press release from the Mohawk Council of Akwesasne. I'm reading between the lines—I don't have the text here in front of me—but they would seem to want to head in a different direction, and they're concerned about increased enforcement presence around their community.

How does one engage communities and their police forces in the introduction of laws like this when there are clearly differing perspectives on what the appropriate response to this problem is?

[Gary Grant]

For instance, if you don't want so much enforcement on your property, come to the table with us and see what we can talk about, if we can come up with some sort of solution together.

[Matthew Kellway, NDP, Beaches—East York, ON]

On the enforcement issue specifically...and you know that we've run into each other on the lawns of the Toronto Hunt club and on the patio of the Balmy Beach Club before.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

You move in fancy circles.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Matthew Kellway, NDP, Beaches—East York, ON]

I certainly do.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

It's who you know, I guess, eh Kellway?

[Matthew Kellway, NDP, Beaches—East York, ON]

This is the life I live now. It's not quite as privileged as the Senate, but it's not bad.

I have provided no funds to the coalition. I want that on the record.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Matthew Kellway, NDP, Beaches—East York, ON]

For Toronto Police Service, for example, it seems to me that now that this is enforceable, there's a burden on the Toronto police to enforce it. What enforcement mechanisms would you like to see as part of the bill itself?

[Gary Grant]

The important mechanisms are there.

This bill deals mostly with the penalties, I would assume. We would like to be able to enforce the laws where officers would have a reasonable hope of seeing them carried through with a good prosecution, a good chance of a conviction, and a good chance of what we would feel is an appropriate sentence. I see all of this as good stuff.

I spoke to Chief Bill Blair not too long ago, and he said he was happy to see the new legislation in the province giving police officers more power to deal with the problem. We know there's a lot of other stuff going on in Toronto at the same time—but put it in with their major crime units to make a point. They'll seize cigarettes and find marijuana, cocaine, or weapons; and vice-versa, they'll execute a search warrant for cocaine, find a bunch of money and lo and behold, they'll find several cartons of cigarettes. It would be joint investigations. The fact they can now do it means that you will be able to see a lot more positive results from the policing viewpoint.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

Thank you very much.

Thank you for those questions and answers.

I want to thank our panel for joining us for this second hour. Your presentations will be very helpful in our discussions and deliberations on Bill C-10.

Thank you very much.

Yes, sir?

[Matthew Kellway, NDP, Beaches—East York, ON]

Very briefly, Mr. Chair, when we had the minister before us, I asked him a question about the coverage of the aboriginal justice strategy. The department's website refers to 600 communities. The testimony referred to 800 communities, but they couldn't respond about the residual on the day. They promised to provide a response; it was supposed to be forthcoming.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

We have not got a response yet, but we can follow up on that.

[Matthew Kellway, NDP, Beaches—East York, ON]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

Thank you very much.

With that, we'll adjourn until Thursday.