Evidence of meeting #58 for Justice and Human Rights in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was afghanistan.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Randeep Sarai
Thank you, Ms. Brière.
Next we'll go to Monsieur Brunelle-Duceppe. Welcome to the committee today.
April 17th, 2023 / 4:05 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to thank all the witnesses.
Thank you for being here, Mr. Minister. I was really looking forward to talking to you. It's been a long time.
On December 22, 2021, the United Nations passed Resolution 2615, calling for us to amend our legislation to allow humanitarian organizations to work in Afghanistan.
On February 7, 2022, I first asked the question to the Special Committee on Afghanistan to raise the issue. On February 22, 2022, I introduced a motion seeking unanimous consent to allow our non-governmental organizations, or NGOs, to work on the ground there. Your government rejected it. In fact, I believe it was the Minister of Justice who blocked it at the time.
you appeared before the Parliamentary committee, Mr. Minister, as did the Minister of Foreign Affairs, the Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship and the Minister of International Development. You all appeared and agreed that there was a problem and it needed to be addressed.
Why did it take you over a year, Mr. Minister?
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
First, I'd like to thank you, Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe, for your leadership on this issue. I know that you have put and are putting a lot of energy into advancing the cause. Thank you.
I have shared your concerns with respect to the urgent need to manage—
4:05 p.m.
Bloc
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
The situation in Afghanistan was so complex due to the conflict and the evacuation of U.S. troops. A number of factors affected the ability—
4:05 p.m.
Bloc
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
4:05 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
So various departments discussed this to come up with a solution, and it was the complexity of the issue that made you take so long.
4:05 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
The solution was there all along, Mr. Minister. Nothing has changed since we raised the issue and since you introduced this bill. If I understand correctly, you're saying that it takes a year to draft 82 pages.
Minister Lametti appeared before the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration and praised the 2002 Liberal government, which in the same situation had made the legislative changes needed to follow U.N. Resolution 1173, in a matter of months.
If it took the Liberal government only a few months in 2002 and it took you about 15 months, does that mean that the Liberal federal ministers in 2002 were more competent than those in place today, Mr. Minister?
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
No new factors influenced the duration of our operation in Afghanistan. However, the pandemic is a factor that had a tremendous influence on our operations, Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe—
4:05 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
I'm glad that you brought up the pandemic, Mr. Minister, because within a few weeks, we were able to put in place extremely complex programs rapidly, because people were losing their jobs and needed help. It was very hard work and we were in the middle of a pandemic. All your departments were blocked. However, you were able to enact legislation that allowed you to act swiftly.
In your opinion, is it more important to help a Canadian worker who has lost their job than an Afghan child who needs humanitarian aid, Mr. Minister?
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
We must also remember that Canada's presence in Afghanistan had been greatly reduced in the preceding decade. The military had pulled out several years earlier, and the decision to send military personnel back in to bring the refugees here was an operation—
4:05 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Mr. Minister, with all due respect, Canada's presence or absence in Afghanistan has nothing to do with the Criminal Code amendments. It's completely—
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
That's true, but I just wanted to add a little context to explain how long it took.
4:05 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
That's fine.
The Government of Canada already works with several recognized organizations. Is it necessary to weigh down the process by requiring authorization if you already know the credible humanitarian aid organizations, such as the Red Cross and Doctors Without Borders?
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
There are many examples of organizations we're familiar with and have good relationships with. Some have other arrangements or agreements. I hope that the authorization process will work efficiently, in a completely unbiased and neutral way.
4:05 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
You know that we worked very hard and that we will try to get the bill passed as quickly as possible, with the powers we have. It should have been done long ago.
Now, the bill refers to a reasonable amount of time to obtain authorization. That's pretty subjective for humanitarian organizations. Since it took you so long to draft the bill, I imagine you prepared yourself and you are able to estimate how much time it will take.
How long do you, the Minister of Public Safety, feel is a reasonable amount of time to obtain authorization, in absolute terms?
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
We can continue to look at options as we work through the bill, or even as we establish the regulations, which will help us provide guidance to organizations so that we can move forward in a very efficient manner.
4:10 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
I will repeat my question: How long does the Minister of Public Safety feel is a reasonable amount of time?
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
It's a faster, more efficient process, but it poses no risk to the integrity—
4:10 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
So you haven't determined the amount of time in an objective manner. It's only subjective for the time being.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
We can discuss it further when we're establishing the regulations.
4:10 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
You stated that you spoke to humanitarian organizations before drafting this bill.
Did you speak with people from Doctors Without Borders? Did you call them to find out what they thought of this bill before you drafted it?
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
We held broad consultations. I know there's a diversity of opinion, but we at the federal government feel we have introduced a bill with the best—