National Defence Committee on Nov. 29th, 2007

[Gen R.J. Hillier]

It's the judge advocate general.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

It's the judge advocate general, and they make the final determination as to whether Canada is in compliance internationally or not? So that's the go-ahead? You would then get a letter from them?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

The judge advocate general is basically the military's top lawyer, so that ensures that we have the best legal advice available with respect to how it complies with international law and international conventions.

I want to just make sure that we're clear on the record, Mr. Christopherson. I said we didn't buy any. We have purchased some for the purposes of tests only. So what I'm talking about is that we haven't made any purchases or procurements for use in the field.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

There was one last wrinkle to this one. I asked about any domestic crowd control. There are plans and circumstances in which local police can be called in if something happens, if something's happening within the boundaries of Canada.

I guess my question would be, is there any expectation that Canadians would see this as part of the equipment that soldiers who were called out for any kind of control would have? It's not that other humans aren't as important as Canadians, but there's certainly a difference between what happens in the theatre of war and what happens in a peaceful country like Canada. So domestic crowd control, it would seem to me, is a potential use for it. Can you give me some assurances or tell me what your procedure will be there?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

There are no plans whatsoever for domestic use.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Would you commit to notifying Parliament or this committee before any such action is taken, so that if, under any circumstance, Canadian soldiers are called out, we will know whether or not these new technological marvels are attached to the equipment they're carrying?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

They don't have access to them now, and they're not using them in the field, so they certainly wouldn't be using them in Canada.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I realize that, but I'm saying after the fact, once they're commissioned.

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

That's a completely hypothetical question, because we don't have them to use, so they're not only not using them in Afghanistan, they're not using them here.

As the general has said, the intent here is really not for crowd control. It's to deter approaching vehicles or motorcycles, by flashing off their windscreen, which is right in front of their face

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Minister, I understand fully. I also understand why we wanted to use tasers, and there are really serious questions. So I don't think there's anything wrong with questioning new technology that may possibly do damage to innocent people. That's a fair question, and I think it's fair that we get some assurance.

Would there be a signal point from you, after it left that final legal determination, to let us all know that now they are being deployed? Is there a mechanism whereby that would happen, or can we request that?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

If we purchase them, certainly you--

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Please give a short response, Mr. Minister. Go ahead.

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Yes, if there is an actual purchase of these items, it will be announced.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Very good.

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Thank you, Mr. Christopherson.

For a final 10 minutes, we'll go over to Mr. Blaney.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'll be pleased to share my time with my colleague Cheryl Gallant.

I'd like to welcome Minister MacKay, the Chief of Staff and the Deputy Minister to the National Defence Committee. Thank you for being available on such short notice.

Minister, first I'm going to talk about the first points you mentioned in your address today. You talked about reinforcing Canadian sovereignty and about our international influence. You were consistent with the actions of our government, both in the 2006-2007 budget and today, when you stated in the estimates the amounts allocated to those commitments.

Unfortunately, our predecessors did not necessarily see the importance of ensuring that our Canadian troops had the necessary equipment or of guaranteeing Canada's sovereignty over its territory. I'm from Lévis. On July 1, 1909, Canada's greatest navigator, Captain Joseph-Elzéar Bernier, claimed sovereignty over the Canadian Arctic archipelago on behalf of Canada. That will make 100 years in a few years.

My question is for the minister. What measures is National Defence taking to guarantee our sovereignty in the Canadian Arctic archipelago in terms of personnel, new equipment and strategic directives?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Mr. MacKay.

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Mr. Blaney.

You are right. It is clearly a priority for our government to ensure a heightened presence in the Arctic for personnel, infrastructure and the promotion of our sovereignty in this region, which is so important for our country. I think our country is proud to protect the Arctic. Our government must therefore make significant investments in that region. We must also truly demonstrate our sovereignty to the other nations that have interests in the Arctic.

So to that extent, as you would know, the Prime Minister himself has made several trips to the Arctic, and there have been significant announcements as recently as this summer.

We have committed to building a deepwater port in Nanisivik. This will be a docking and refuelling facility in the Arctic, which will allow for a greater presence for our naval vessels. Clearly, the navy's operational range will be enhanced by the ability to refuel at this deepwater port, and that facility will also be in close proximity to the Northwest Passage, which is again an area of significant value and significant strategic importance to Canada.

We're also going to establish an Arctic training centre in Resolute Bay. This will be a year-round multi-purpose facility that will support training within the Arctic. It's intended to have year-round operations and personnel of approximately a hundred. There are real challenges, as you would expect, because of the harsh weather and the daylight. As we approach Christmas in the Arctic, it's literally dark 22 or 23 hours a day. So some of our training equipment and vehicles that we find there are special in their use. What we want to do is give them the increased training and capacity on the equipment to have a quicker response time, and also the necessary support throughout the region. It's a vast territory, in which we have to try to provide that type of response.

I mentioned earlier our search and rescue. Their operations in the north of course will continue to be of vital importance.

The Canadian Rangers, who have been traditionally a tremendous presence for us and a tremendous source of pride for our Arctic citizens, will see an increase in number from 4,100 to 5,000 as a result of an increase in budget. They will be outfitted with new, modern equipment--GPS equipment--because, as you would expect, they are often on patrols far afield. We will be giving them the necessary protective equipment and uniforms to provide that type of reach.

Finally, I would point to the investment in Arctic patrol ships, which is again a very important item.

that you have a lot of interest in shipbuilding capacity in Lévis.

These Arctic patrol ships, which we announced last summer, are a Polar class 5 type of offshore patrol vessel. They'll be custom-built and designed here in Canada, which I think will be a great shot in the arm for our shipbuilding industry. They'll be a very heavy, versatile, armed navy vessel, one that will be able to perform the necessary movement in sustained operations in ice. There are very treacherous ice conditions, as you would expect, most times of the year. In fact, one of the misnomers about the increase in open waters in the Northwest Passage is in fact that this isn't necessarily going to make it easier to navigate in the Northwest Passage. In fact, there is much more free floating ice, which makes it in some instances even more treacherous than when there was large and predictable and visible ice within the water of the Northwest Passage.

Those are a few items that I would point to. The patrol and the reach and the increased personnel and equipment for the Arctic are very much in keeping with the Prime Minister's and the government's commitment to expanding our sovereignty and our control over the Arctic.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Thank you very much, Minister.

This summer, I was at the launch of the Amundsen, the biggest scientific mission ever conducted in Canada's High North, which will also afford the opportunity for exchanges with the Inuit communities that occupy the territory and that also guarantee our sovereignty there. You clearly emphasized that, having regard to climate change, it is important to ensure the territoriality of navigation in Canadian waters through the investments announced. One need only recall this year's brilliant stroke by our Russian friends, which you referred to. I hail your investments and I also thank you for emphasizing that the biggest Canadian shipyard is in Lévis.

With that, I turn the floor over to my colleague. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Ms. Gallant, you have three minutes.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If there's any time left, I'd like to share it with my colleague Dr. Lunney.

In the new year, Minister, we plan to study mental health issues within the armed forces. It's a very important area of study, first of all, because we want to protect and care for the brave women and men who serve in our armed forces. Secondly, we can ill afford to lose any soldiers to mental health, especially when we're trying to build our forces after what someone referred to as a decade of darkness.

Can you let this committee know what progress we're making in mental health issues for soldiers and perhaps what extra steps are being taken, if any, considering the stressful situation when they return from Afghanistan?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Gallant, I know this has been long an area of interest to you and I know you've advocated on behalf of soldiers from your constituency. This is a subject that has a great deal of sensitivity. As you would expect, it involves families and it affects soldiers in a very fundamental way.

I'm proud of the fact that I believe our Canadian Forces have significantly modernized in the way we support and embrace our soldiers when they return. You're absolutely correct to say the injuries they suffer are not always apparent; they're not always physically present when they step off a plane when they're coming back from a deployment like Afghanistan. Recognizing this, we have invested in some of the important support that has to be there for them and for their families. There was $100 million, in fairness, set aside by the previous government, which runs until 2009. We are currently examining the necessity to increase that amount for the future. We've also added, and we continue to add, mental health professionals in the area to provide counselling, to provide the necessary support, particularly in the area of post-traumatic stress disorder, which is something that does affect, in many instances, those who have been in a combat zone.

I'm pleased to say that the great majority who do return from deployment return in good health, but for those who don't, there is an intrinsic responsibility for the Government of Canada to care for their health and well-being. So our government and the Department of National Defence are supporting the robust mental health teams that we have currently in the field. They have expertise in areas such as psychiatry, psychology, mental health counselling, addictions counselling, clinical social work, and in some instances, pastoral care. We continue to increase those numbers. They've increased by over 200 in the past few years. They currently are about 450 across the country. If and when the necessity arises, we will increase that number further. For special types of programs like post-traumatic stress, we have experts operating from Halifax to Vancouver and all bases in between. And we have, of course, officials in the field, as well, who are prepared to provide mental health support.

I don't know if you want to add anything to that, General.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

You will have to be very brief with it, sir.

[Gen R.J. Hillier]

I would say, in addition to all that the minister has said, there are three things.

One thing is clearly identifying post-traumatic stress disorder and the mental challenges that our soldiers face. They are not new to us, but we simply need to recognize that.

Two, leadership has a key role to play here in supporting, sustaining, and helping people recover when they have those challenges. We have a leadership that is doing this. The people I see working for me are doing that.

The last thing I would say to all of you here, and to Canadians, is that the best medicine to make robust young men and women, to sustain them during difficult times, and to help them recover when they have mental challenges is to feel valued, to feel appreciated, and to have that visibly demonstrated for them so that they know they can raise those problems confidently with the support of a country behind them. That's the best medicine for our young men and women in uniform that we can give them.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

That's a good note to end on. Thank you, sir.