Evidence of meeting #7 for National Defence in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was north.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:55 p.m.
Director, Policy Development, Assistant Deputy Minister - Policy, Department of National Defence
That was before the treaty was signed. However, I know that since the treaty came into force, they have always asked our permission.
4 p.m.
Director, Policy Development, Assistant Deputy Minister - Policy, Department of National Defence
I'll have to see. Once again, this question is more for the representatives of DFAIT. They are the ones who are responsible for this.
4 p.m.
Bloc
Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
Okay.
As concerns occupation of the territory—we know that this is very important—under the strategy, you have indexed the population of each Inuit village to ensure that the Inuit have been there since time immemorial. These are the terms used by Indian and Northern Affairs Canada when they refer to the Inuit: time immemorial. These people have always been there, they are considered as Canadians and therefore, the territory truly belongs to them. I imagine that that is a question for DFAIT as well?
4 p.m.
Director, Policy Development, Assistant Deputy Minister - Policy, Department of National Defence
I don't know whether that is the responsibility of DFAIT or Indian Affairs, but I do know that it certainly does not concern DND.
4 p.m.
Bloc
Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
Okay.
I now have a question that I think is for National Defence. Is the Joint Task Force North, which includes the army, navy and air force, a division of Command Canada, or is it separate?
4 p.m.
Cmdre D. Gardam
It is part of Command Canada.
4 p.m.
Cmdre D. Gardam
Yes.
4 p.m.
Bloc
4 p.m.
Cmdre D. Gardam
No, it's Brigadier-General Miller.
This committee, I believe, has already asked to have him report, along with Admiral McFadden, in the coming weeks.
4 p.m.
Bloc
Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
I would like to apologize because we are starting our study, and we're trying to see how things fit in. I would eventually like to hear from you, Commodore, concerning the use of UAVs and satellites during reconnaissance missions.
In future, will UAVs and satellites be used more than ships? Will these technologies be important for reconnaissance missions in the Arctic?
4 p.m.
Cmdre D. Gardam
We have Radarsat-2, which has already been launched, and that is a satellite that gives us some persistence in the north. The next project to be launched is Polar Epsilon, which will be 2013 to 2015. That will give us more dexterity in the picture as well as access to automatic identification systems, AIS, tracking any ships of a gross tonnage of 3,000 tonnes or more, plus additional systems. To build maritime domain awareness in the north is not one system, it's a system of systems.
If someone else would like to ask me more, I can expand.
4 p.m.
NDP
Dawn Black NDP New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you for coming today. As my colleague said, we're just about to undertake the study, and it's one I think all of us are incredibly interested in, so we're happy to get the information you shared with us today.
I think we're all aware of the fragile ecosystem in the Arctic and have concerns about it. Through my friends who live in the north, I know that one of the big concerns of people who are living there is that the ice highways are melting, and they're having difficulty transporting things from one area to another. They've raised other concerns with me around wildlife--polar bears, and other things that are being affected in the Arctic by the changing climate. I wonder how those kinds of changes around the ice highways have affected your work in the Arctic, if they have.
I also wanted to talk about the issue of surveillance, which you just touched upon. I think everyone shares concerns about what will happen in the future as more and more of the ice cap melts. I also have concerns. I come from metro Vancouver, and we're going through terrible gang warfare right now. A number of people have been killed, most of them because of drugs. So I'm concerned about the opening waterways, the issue of drug runners getting drugs into Canada and also getting guns into Canada more easily.
The other thing I'm concerned about is the trafficking of people when another avenue opens. That's also a huge organized criminal activity that affects all of us.
I wonder if you could touch on that, and then I have a couple of others too.
4 p.m.
Cmdre D. Gardam
I'll start off.
On the issues of ice highways and the infrastructure, most of the areas where we are operating are in such austere areas--for example, Alert--that what we move in, we move in by air. In some of the other areas where we have port operating logistics sites, a lot of that is also done by air.
One of the things missing in the north is the critical infrastructure to move things around--railways, etc. So to answer your question on the issue of illegal trafficking of drugs and personnel, undoubtedly you could have increased access. It's a vast area. The problem is, when you land there, where do you go? That's the real issue. It is such an austere area...I would be interested. How many on the committee have seen the north? So then you know what I'm talking about when I say it's austere. The colours of grey and white are all you see for a vast part of the year.
To be able to move things in and around that area would be quite a logistical feat. You would have to be able to fly in or support something of that nature, which then gets to the issue of how you know what's in your sky and how you manage it. We do that right now through NORAD, which is our warning, and it gives us the ability to see who's flying in our air space through our early warning sites, which allow us to see if we have aircraft.
Could someone come in through our north? Yes. It would be very difficult, though, and there are easier ways to do it.
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Dawn Black NDP New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC
With the possibility of the Northwest Passage becoming navigable, isn't that a way where they would have an opportunity to bring in more drugs and deal in people trafficking?
4:05 p.m.
Cmdre D. Gardam
I brought a map, and I don't know if you've seen it, but if you look at the Arctic on the eastern side, looking into Hudson Bay, that's probably the best place to come in because that's an open-water port for at least three months of the year. That being said, there's also infrastructure in Hudson Bay to do some screening.
So yes, we could have increased access to the north. There is a possibility you could get some smuggling, but I still think there are easier ways to do it south of 66° north than going through the trouble of doing it north of that.
4:05 p.m.
Director, Policy Development, Assistant Deputy Minister - Policy, Department of National Defence
It's not just that. As well, you mentioned the issue of the Northwest Passage becoming more accessible. If you're going to see a number of witnesses, I would probably encourage you to talk to the Canadian Ice Service. They will be able to give you a really good idea of their projections of the ice melting and the fact that actually the Northwest Passage won't necessarily be easily navigable any time soon. The waters over the North Pole and the northeastern sea route will be probably open way before the Northwest Passage for navigation through the waters.
We have the Canadian Arctic, and it will probably be more of a destination rather than a transitway. People will go there to extract resources. It is probably actually going to be north-south more than east-west, if you know what I mean, because a lot of the ice will accumulate at the western entrance of the Northwest Passage because of the way the currents are going.
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Dawn Black NDP New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC
You indicated that the Canadian Forces role won't really change even with climate change. I'm wondering if you could expand on that, because it seems to me that if the climate's changing, albeit slowly, and if more and more areas are going to be accessible through climate change, and if there's the kind of devastation of the environment people are concerned about, surely that would make some changes to the role of the Canadian Forces.
4:05 p.m.
Cmdre D. Gardam
Perhaps I will go back to what I said our primary missions were.
When I say “conventional defence”, I mean we still don't see that changing in the long term.
On search and rescue, as there's an increase in the north, our role is not going to change but perhaps our emphasis will, because with access comes the increased risk. There will always be that risk. So I would say there will be perhaps greater emphasis or risk for search and rescue, and it's the same with major air disasters because we're getting more flights over our North Pole.
On assistance to law enforcement, the role won't change, but the amount of support we're giving might.
On humanitarian assistance and assistance to other government departments, these are fundamental roles and I don't see them changing, but I do see the emphasis changing.
