National Defence Committee on May 15th, 2014

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

So how will you measure success? What are the tools that you are envisioning to measure success in your new position?

[Gary Walbourne]

To measure success, I think there are two pieces. There's the tangible piece, which we can easily measure and count by the number of recommendations we've made and how many have been accepted, how many cases we're getting, how many we're closing. I think that's a very tangible number-counting issue.

I think the real success comes from the intangible, the things you can't lay your hands on. I think it goes back to what the other member was talking about, and that is how we build relationships, who we collaborate with, whether we are listened to, whether we are a first go-to point of reference or contact with people. I think those are the things—

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Norlock]

Thank you very much, Mr. Walbourne. We'll have to leave it at that.

Ms. Michaud, you have five minutes.

[Élaine Michaud, NDP, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to join my colleagues in congratulating you on your appointment. I also want to take a moment to thank you for the announcement you just officially made regarding the investigation that will be launched into the tragic event that struck the Valcartier military base cadets in the 1970s.

I am the member for Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier. The Valcartier military base is located in my riding. Constituents who are still deeply affected by the incident that took place approach me regularly. They are puzzled by the fact that the government has still not formally recognized the incident. So I hope your investigation will be able to provide some relief to the suffering families, the victims who are still with us today and to citizens from across the country who are truly concerned by the events that took place.

I would like to come back to the purpose of your appearance today. Mr. Chisu talked about your extensive background. As a francophone, I have some specific concerns.

A few months ago, the NDP introduced a bill that has been passed by Parliament. That legislation stipulates that all officers of Parliament must be officially bilingual. I know that you are not considered to be an officer of Parliament as such, but I think the quality of services provided in French to our military members is essential.

I would like to know whether you consider yourself bilingual. Do you feel capable of personally providing equivalent services in French to military members who may reach out to you?

[Gary Walbourne]

I may not be able to do so at this time.

I can speak French, but I have noticed that the vocabulary and phrases used in this environment greatly differ from those used in other environments.

I think it's really important for me to take the time to properly understand the overall situation. I did reach the required language level at some point, when I was a public servant. I am a bit rusty, but I have decided to practice every day with my colleagues and employees.

[Élaine Michaud, NDP, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you for the effort you are now making with me.

I want to continue talking about this issue I am very concerned about. A number of military members have come to see me at my office. They have been discussing some fairly significant problems in terms of the status of French and the ability to obtain services in French within the Canadian Forces. For instance, it's difficult to have access to training in French. Certain establishments provide supposedly bilingual courses, but since most of the participants are anglophones, the courses are given in English. So francophones don't actually have access to information in French. That's just one of many examples.

Is that one of the priority issues for you, now that you have taken on your position?

[Gary Walbourne]

If that's okay with you, I will answer in English, since the issue is very nuanced.

From an ombudsman's perspective, when I came into this role, I was very pleased to see that 98% of my staff are bilingual. That's an amazing number, and I'm very pleased with it.

I'll let Alain speak to what happens on the ground with training, but we are in a country that has two official languages. Those who decide to join the military should be afforded the same type of opportunity that others are. That would be my main concern.

[Élaine Michaud, NDP, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

If any specific files are a source of concern for you, I would like to obtain the answer in writing, since another issue was raised in committee, and I would like to quickly discuss it with you.

The media recently reported that no francophone psychologist is on the ground in Afghanistan to serve our troops. The Canadian Armed Forces simply do not have a francophone psychologist in uniform. Some of our witnesses have told us that our military members do not necessarily need that type of service. They said that, as soon as psychological problems would appear to require more monitoring, the soldiers would be sent back home.

However, the Americans have those types of soldiers within their armed forces. They provided psychological services in English to our Canadian military members on the ground in Afghanistan, as necessary. National Defence acknowledged the existence of a problem in this area. A complaint has been filed with the Commissioner of Official Languages.

I find that the arguments put forward whereby this service is unnecessary are somewhat paradoxical. I would like to know how your office intends to deal with this issue.

[Gary Walbourne]

I think anyone who would like to join the forces should be afforded the same opportunities. I also believe they should be afforded the same type of service.

If someone has suffered a mental injury or an operational stress injury because of the service, they should have access to it.

Alain and I were having a conversation the other day about what happens on the front line.

Maybe you can add a comment to that.

[Alain Gauthier]

I will answer in French.

I served in Afghanistan in 2007. Over the next two years, I served as the chief of operations for Afghanistan in the Canadian Expeditionary Forces here, in Ottawa. So I am very familiar with this issue.

Every contingent is deployed with medical officers from the same region. For instance, Valcartier is deployed with its own medical officers, who use an assessment to determine whether individuals need psychiatric care.

When a psychiatric assessment is done on an individual in the theatre of operations, and it is determined that they have problems, they don't remain on the ground. They have to go back home. Clinical treatment cannot be provided in the operational theatre.

I think the Canadian Armed Forces emphasize the right considerations. Our office has not received any individual complaints when it comes to this.

[Élaine Michaud, NDP, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Unfortunately, the complaints have surfaced in the media.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Norlock]

Thank you very much, Madame Michaud. We're about a minute over there.

Mr. Bezan, you have five minutes.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank our witnesses for coming in.

I congratulate you, Mr. Walbourne, on your appointment as ombudsman to National Defence.

We were talking earlier about this issue of sexual assault and sexual harassment. I understand and I appreciate that sexual assault is a criminal investigation that has to be left to the police officials and authorities, and then ultimately the judicial system to sort out.

You also mentioned the concern that some people don't come forward on sexual assault or harassment because of revictimization.

What about those victims? What role does your office have in dealing with the victims after an assault has taken place, especially as a member of the Canadian Armed Forces? Are there programs in place? Would you have to work through military personnel to ensure that there is programming available for those who have been victimized?

[Gary Walbourne]

As Alain said, those types of cases are not handled by our office. They are handed off to the proper authorities. As to what recourse happens from there, I'll have to fall back on Alain's experience again. Having been a military member, he may tell you what steps are in place. But again, once you know it's a sexual assault case, it's turned over to those authorities. Those cases rarely come back to us unless there's a fallout consequence because of that.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

Alain.

[Alain Gauthier]

I will refer to the sexual harassment side, a much smaller offence.

If they come back to us and they fear reprisal—and that's most of the cases—then we work with the individual and the chain of command to make sure that we deal with the issue. Sometimes it has to do with ensuring that the working environment is safe and well done. Most of the time when we interact with the chain of command, we do get very positive feedback or answers from them.

[Gary Walbourne]

That's on sexual harassment and not on sexual assault.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

Yes. Understood.

Now just talking about chain of command, talking about culture within the military context, Mr. Walbourne, you worked, as you said, 10 years at DND before. Do you feel you understand that culture and some of the obstacles for people to come forward with their complaints?

[Gary Walbourne]

Yes. Unless you have served, I don't think you ever understand the esprit de corps. When I look at it from the outside, I do believe I know enough about how the structure works to be able to push the right buttons or pull the right levers to help ease someone's case, or whatever it might be, to move forward their issue.

So I feel fairly comfortable. I'm extremely pleased with the reception I have received from the chain of command and the senior members of the leadership team. It's been an open-door policy. I have been invited in.

As Alain has said, we've handled a couple of small cases already. The response and feedback from the department and the Canadian Armed Forces has been second to none. I'm very pleased to this point in time.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

In your role it comes down to what your personal values are as well, along with your staff, of course. You have already expressed, when you were over as the deputy ombudsman at Veterans Affairs, your concern with those who have come from service dealing with different types of injuries, whether it's operational stress injuries or a physical injury.

In this new role, do you feel those values that you have personally will serve you well, along with your experience, in providing an independent review of how things are conducted within the Canadian Armed Forces?

[Gary Walbourne]

I believe so. We want to talk about values. One thing I want to bring to the table, which I think probably influences everything I do, is respect—whether it's respect for the individual, fairness in a process, respect for the chain of command, or respect for the rights of others. If you apply that to it and you bring evidence-based research to what you're doing, I think that value in and of itself in this type of a role.... We talk about respecting confidentiality and neutrality. All those things have to be respected.

I think if we can instill that in not only me but my staff and those around me, that will stand us well moving forward. I think it's the base place to go and it's an easy one to understand.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

You mentioned to Mr. Harris that you're going to be looking at the incident at Valcartier. What other areas are on your radar, which your office is going to be reporting on?

[Gary Walbourne]

The first thing Alain showed me when I showed up was the radar, which has a whole bunch of stuff on it. One of the things we're working on right now, which is getting close to completion, is reserve force compensation. That report is just about finished or ready to publish. There's another one that's coming out very shortly. It's about the board of inquiry. I think we're in the final editing stage of that.

As for things that are coming up that we're looking at, the Valcartier one is going to be a large piece of work. I need to make sure I understand what resource implication that has before I commit to too many things here in front of the committee. Those are the types of things we're looking at. Our caseload at the front line has been pretty much the same this year as it was last year.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Norlock]

Thank you very much, Mr. Walbourne. We're well over.

The chair's going to reserve about one and a half minutes for a question.

Go ahead, Mr. Harris, for about five minutes.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you, Chair.

Sir, my colleague mentioned that of course you're not an officer of Parliament. You report to the minister. That's been complained about in the past. I'd like you to tell us briefly whether you think that affects your independence.