National Defence Committee on May 27th, 2014

[MGen David Millar]

Yes, absolutely. I work with the Chaplain General. At each of our bases and wings we do have a chaplain. Any of our members can go directly to the chaplain.

Our Chaplain General does performance measurements. When they feel there is a trend or a tendency, it will be brought to our attention right away. Indeed, some of the mechanisms of voice that we have put in place over the years are as a result of the continual surveys we have done with our members to determine where the trends are so that we can put in the appropriate programs.

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

That is an important aspect, to speak to the padre on a base, because it's the first indication that you have outside of the chain of command. That is one of the matters to go outside of the chain of command, to go to the padre; it's an indication that there is a problem.

I know that soldiers are more confident in the padre sometimes than reporting to the chain of command.

[MGen David Millar]

Yes, sir, and we do have our spiritual leaders on each of our bases. Even if our members were not necessarily comfortable with going to the padre on that base—once again, because it's still associated with the environment and perhaps the chain of command—we have a 1-800 padre helpline that is active 24/7.

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

I have one other question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Norlock]

You have half a minute.

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Okay.

How did you deal with these three areas—reserves, regular force, and cadet corps? Did you have events in the reserves or in the regular force? I know that the article is speaking mostly about the regular force component. What about the reserves and the cadet corps?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Norlock]

The response will have to await a written response, or wait until another time.

Go ahead for five minutes.

[Jean-François Larose, NDP, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to let you know that I will share my time with Ms. Michaud.

In 1994-1995, I was a reservist in the forces. The work environment was conducive to the concealment of any issues. We did not talk about them, and nothing surfaced. That was a long time ago, and some improvements have been made. However, I would have expected the situation to be different owing to the huge responsibility of our troops, especially in Afghanistan. Those troops are there to help the locals.

I am worried by the fact that these types of problems still exist. Those people may have relations amongst themselves, but I do not even dare imagine what the situation is when this happens with Afghanis, who may not even have the ability to file a complaint. Zero tolerance will have to be implemented eventually. It is not good enough to say improvement have been made in terms of percentages.

Earlier, you mentioned a report. Is that report anonymous? You put questions to military members. You have a report on the number of individuals who file complaints. You say that the percentage is very low.

I would like a quick answer please.

[MGen David Millar]

The report you are talking about

is the actual survey, the workplace harassment survey that we do within the Canadian Forces as part of our continuous improvement program. It surveys our Canadian Forces' members anonymously and allows them to report on the workplace culture they find themselves working in. That survey was done in 2012. The results were assessed and analyzed, and they are posted on the Canadian Forces website.

[Jean-François Larose, NDP, Repentigny, QC]

So why wait so long before doing the survey? If you look at the earlier reports, the numbers were about the same. Why do we have to wait for the media to come out with this for you guys to suddenly wake up and say, look, there's a problem, we have to do this? It's been ongoing.

[MGen David Millar]

Indeed, it is a continuous process. The survey was completed in 2012. At that time, we started to implement even greater measures. As the Chief of the Defence Staff alluded to, on March 11 he implemented changes and improvements to our harassment program, and that was prior, as a matter of fact, to the recent media events.

[Jean-François Larose, NDP, Repentigny, QC]

If we speak about prevention, for PTSD you mentioned that you're putting prevention measures in place, screening before members join. Is there anything in that sense for members who would join concerning sexual harassment?

[MGen David Millar]

In terms of their propensity? Our recruiting standards, techniques, examine certainly—

[Jean-François Larose, NDP, Repentigny, QC]

Have they changed? Are they changing?

[MGen David Millar]

Yes.

Have they changed?

[Jean-François Larose, NDP, Repentigny, QC]

Yes.

[MGen David Millar]

Yes. Over the last 20 years, yes, they have.

[Jean-François Larose, NDP, Repentigny, QC]

Are they changing right now? Is that an option that you're looking at right now?

[MGen David Millar]

We continually looking at how we are assessing our Canadian population as they want to join the Canadian Forces. It is a very scientific approach that is always evolving. So, yes.

[Jean-François Larose, NDP, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you.

[Élaine Michaud, NDP, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

General Cathcart, I was saying earlier that the unit commander has a great deal of power because they decide on the consequences or the procedure in cases where charges are laid.

What criteria are used to determine whether sexual misconduct merits administrative penalties or rather a court martial trial? Can you quickly explain this to me?

[MGen Blaise Cathcart]

Thank you for the question.

Obviously, each case will depend on the facts, which can come forward in different ways. It can be from individual members who believe they've been the subject of sexual misconduct, which ranges from a low-end activity of harassment to high-end activity of sex assault, and at that point—

[Élaine Michaud, NDP, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

You are working on a long answer, but I am just trying to obtain....

[MGen Blaise Cathcart]

I understand, but the issue is very complex. This is not a simple matter.

[Élaine Michaud, NDP, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I understand that the situation is not simple, but I am just asking you the following. In the case of touching over clothing, would administrative penalties be imposed or would the offender be court-martialled? You will tell me that it depends on the context—such as whether the individual in question was drinking alcohol or whether the incident took place at a party.