National Defence Committee on May 29th, 2014

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

I was aware when we received the report that there was a statutory requirement to table that in Parliament. Just so you know, I've indicated to the Judge Advocate General to continue to compile the statistics and the report for the last couple of years. I know that much of the information is public on the military JAG website, in terms of prosecutions, charges, and acquittals and convictions—all that is there.

But the compilation of it is the responsibility of the Judge Advocate General, and I know that he is making that a priority. We've got to have it. As I say, the most recent one tabled was in March this year, which was when we received it, and of course we tabled it. But, that being said, I should point out that much of the information on this, about the most serious of those assaults, is public on the military JAG website.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Sir, I'm assuming you tabled it within the 30 days after you received it.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Well, you try.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

I'm assuming you did, so I'm assuming you only got it late in February of this year, but—

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Sometimes we try to table and Parliament may not be sitting, with many of these reports.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

We weren't sitting at the time.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

We table it when—

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

We did get notice of it. It took us a long time to get an actual copy of it, but it was certainly tabled. This is the one that has the statistics as to what types of offences have been prosecuted and even the conviction rates, in some cases.

Do you have a concern, sir, that the numbers for sexual assault charges under section 129 of the act, for “conduct prejudicial to good order and discipline”, are lumped in with the drug and alcohol-related charges as well, for a total of 691 reported for the year ending 2011, without your being able, Parliament, or the public's being able to have any knowledge of the actual numbers of charges or whether such charges are up from the year before or down? We know that from 2009 to 2010 they went up by more than 70%, but we don't know what happened in the year 2011, because they are lumped in with those others.

Are you concerned about that?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

I understand your point. If you look just at straight statistics, it's like asking how much crime there is. You want a breakdown of it, and you want to know exactly what it is they are talking about.

What I have done is refer people to the military judge website, which sets out the more serious crimes, because I agree with you: the sexual assault crimes are the most serious crimes that can take place, along with aggravated assaults or possibly murder; these are very serious crimes.

Again, I think that people who are looking for a specific analysis of what has happened, or indeed at whether there have been convictions or acquittals, should go straight to the website, and they can see exactly what it is—

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

But the website doesn't—

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

—rather than, as you say, waiting for a report that lumps it in with a lot of other offences.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Well, sir, if we had timely reports and reports that were transparent rather than obscure, we would know already what the situation was in the years ending in 2012, 2013, and hopefully 2014, but we don't have any of those, and the website doesn't have statistics. It only mentions certain offences, as you say.

So are you—?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

I think that's pretty important, though, Mr. Harris, so that—

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Yes, but—

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

—people can see—

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

I want to ask you this, sir: are you prepared to give the Judge Advocate General a timeline for filing those reports, which are statutorily required? And are you prepared to ask him to ensure that the reports are more transparent than the one we've seen for the year ending 2011? In the year before, it was different.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Norlock]

Thank you very much for the question. Perhaps the witness can get back to us at a later date.

Mr. Leung, you have seven minutes.

[Chungsen Leung, Conservative, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Minister and staff, for attending.

I wish, Minister, you would be kind enough to describe your vision or your outlook for the national shipbuilding procurement strategy.

What I'm interested in is where you see our naval forces being, moving forward, with aging vessels and given that now we're putting more resources into procuring the sea vessels in addition to the Arctic icebreakers?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Certainly part of our Canada First defence strategy is that there be naval capability and naval readiness. This is something we have made very clear over the last number of years, that this is a priority for us. It has to work hand in hand with the capability, of course, of the Canadian Army and the RCAF. They all have to work in collaboration with each other. This is a vital component of that.

Again, in terms of our ability to defend our coastlines, to enforce our sovereignty, and to promote Canadian interests abroad, I think this is very important.

You, I'm sure, are aware of the work the Royal Canadian Navy has done in the Arabian Sea, for instance. You have seen a number of articles in the paper, I'm sure, about the drug seizures. This is an important part of what we are doing to make sure to do what we can to bring some stability to that part of the world.

Quite frankly, they have done an excellent job in that area, but they represent our interests there. Again, being a part of NATO, we have redeployed one of those ships, as you know, into the Mediterranean. This again is a part of our contributing to our allies.

[Chungsen Leung, Conservative, Willowdale, ON]

What about the other role, the disaster mitigation role whereby the navy can provide disaster mitigation along the west coastline in the case of a tsunami, a major oil spill, or in case of other natural disasters? Are we preparing a plan for those possible incidents?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

That's a very good point as well.

We want to make sure that we continue to have the capability to intervene when it is necessary. I gave you a number of examples on an international level where we have intervened and contributed. Again, I mentioned our ability to patrol and enforce our sovereignty. But you're quite correct that when a disaster takes place, if it takes place off the coast of Canada or any particular waterway, we want to have the ability and capability to intervene and do what we can to assist.

We've had a long and very proud record in this area. In my opening remarks I gave a couple of examples where the armed forces have intervened to assist and again, having the capability of the RCN to be able to do that, to help them to continue to assist in any potential disaster that might take place, to intervene where necessary, is another component of it. It's a wide range of capability that they have to have and a wide range of roles that they could be called upon to play, but, as you know, they've always stepped up to the plate, and we can be very proud of what they are doing now and what they're going to continue to do.

But, again, the shipbuilding program that we have embarked on and that I gave some details to one of your colleagues about is a very important component of that, and it's exactly what we have to have.

[Chungsen Leung, Conservative, Willowdale, ON]

As you probably realize, naval procurement itself is a very heavy capital expenditure. As we move forward, will naval expenditure possibly consume about a third our ongoing estimates or the budget, or do we phase in the naval procurement and then the air force and then...?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

They're all important, and as you know and as I indicated, we are looking at all different aspects moving forward, including equipment for the RCAF, Royal Canadian Navy and, of course, I mentioned the vehicles for the Canadian Army. So it's all part of one component. They all have to work. It's not enough, for instance, when the army is prepared to intervene and to assist, if you can't get them there. So, again, the navy is another vital component of what we are doing.

Again, you see this today. I pointed to examples in the Arabian Sea and the Mediterranean. Yes, we are there on the Atlantic and the Pacific. We have to have that capability. So, again, when you examine the main estimates, you will see that there is a substantial investment in these, but we're not picking one over the other; they all have to work. I was recently in Halifax to announce an upgrade of the Auroras. Yes, we have to have that capability for search and rescue, for surveillance. That is part of our readiness in the air, and this is part of our readiness in the water.

[Chungsen Leung, Conservative, Willowdale, ON]

How will this assist Canada's marine industries as a cooperative or industrial offsets, as we go forward—

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

I think these things are hugely important. Again, as I said to our colleague, just the changes and the investments that are taking place in Halifax are an ongoing demonstration of how important these are. I try to make that point to people when we are talking about the capability of our armed forces. It's vitally important that our armed forces are capable of doing the job they're called upon to do, but to make sure that they are capable, there are benefits for Canadian industry.

I was at the CANSEC conference just yesterday and I indicated to them that we want to make sure that they're aware of what we are going to need. It's not a final list. It'll be something that's changing, but I told them that in the next couple of weeks we will be releasing the defence acquisition guide and that this will help them have a place to go to check out to see what it is that the Canadian armed forces are going to need. Because, again, a group like CANSEC are the are the individuals, the small and medium-sized businesses, who are in the business of producing equipment for our forces.