National Defence Committee on May 29th, 2014

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Norlock]

Thank you very much, Minister.

Mr. Easter, for seven minutes.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to your officials for coming as well.

I would say off the top as well that our armed forces certainly are to be congratulated and thanked for their involvement in international theatres in support of the international community, as well as for their efforts in domestic, often weather, crises. Going back to the ice storm, I have observed this. It's interesting, because people ask, should we be spending money on the military? Then when there's a domestic crisis due to weather, you're much appreciated for coming in.

I'd also say that I don't think Canadians recognize enough the risk involved in just staying prepared and in training, as we saw in the accident in the last two weeks ago, or thereabouts, with the death of a soldier. I just want to say that off the top.

You mentioned in your remarks, Mr. Minister, the media attention on the sexual assaults in the Canadian Armed Forces. When General Lawson was before the committee he said, “...I do not accept from any quarter the notion that sexual misconduct is simply part of our military culture.”

Is that your position as well?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Obviously, this is a terrible thing, Mr. Easter. We as the government, as you know, don't condone it in or out of the military. We've taken specific steps to further criminalize and make these as serious as possible, because no member of the armed forces should be subject to any type of assault, and certainly not a sexual assault in the armed forces. This is intolerable. Individuals who commit these offences should pay the price. That has been our position.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

I guess my concern it that it's an issue that has been raised by advocacy groups, and even the ombudsman's office, but it really seems to have been triggered more to your attention by the media reports recently, and now it's an issue. I would certainly say I hope it's followed up very closely and with immediate urgency.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Again, we have been consistent throughout our term of office. I could give you a list of all the different pieces of legislation that we have introduced to toughen the sentences and toughen the treatment of individuals who commit these kinds of offences. These apply to people inside or outside of the military, but we have a long list of them, Mr. Easter. As a government, standing up for victims has been one of the hallmarks right from 2006. Since we took office we have been consistent with that: we will stand with victims.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Let me then turn to procurement, which is always a difficult issue. Has DND, Public Works and Government Services, or the fighter procurement secretariat done any costing analysis regarding keeping the current CF-18s flying beyond the end of the life cycle in 2020? Is there any costing analysis, because we're hearing that may in fact happen now?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

I'll ask Mr. Martin to have a look at that.

[Michael Martin, Senior Associate Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence]

Thank you for the question.

Mr. Chairman, as part of the seven-point plan, analysis of the life extension of the CF-18 has been undertaken, and that information will be part of the overall consideration of options going forward.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

So when will that information be available?

[Michael Martin]

As I said, the government laid out in the seven-point plan the analytical steps it would be taking to assess more options for the replacement of the CF-18. That work is now nearing completion, and I expect on the basis of that the government will be in a position to make a decision.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

I don't think I really got an answer.

But we do hope, Mr. Chair, when that information becomes available, it will be forwarded to this committee forthwith.

While I'm on procurement, I want to turn to the Irving shipyards just for a minute. One of the concerns I've heard raised there is regarding the private sector, and especially Irving Shipbuilding themselves. As you can see when you're on the water side of Harrington Street there, or Burlington Street, I guess it is, they've made a tremendous, multi-million dollar investment—hundreds of millions of dollars of investment—and they still are. One of the concerns is the stability of the funding going forward as government's financial situation changes and the commitment—and this is just an example—of say $100 million a year gets cut back. That affects very seriously the investment of the private company.

Can you assure us that the funding that has been committed on an annual basis going forward is secure and will remain in place? They have to tool up, they have to hire the skilled labour, and they need that assurance, I'm sure.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

I'm going to have to get the main estimates passed for this year. As you know, Mr. Easter, we've got $241 million in the budget, in the main estimates, for the Arctic offshore patrol ships. We are very committed to seeing that project a success. We expect that the design phase will be completed early in 2015 and construction is scheduled to begin the fall of 2015.

So again I can tell you that my observations and my discussions at this point in time—and needless to say we watch these things very carefully and closely—show that we're on track. The project is on track. You're quite correct: there has been extensive work done up to this point. But I'm expecting them to be cutting steel and beginning construction next year on this.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Norlock]

Thank you.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

As you can see with respect to our commitment, you'll see that the commitment is right there in the main estimates. So please pass them.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Norlock]

Thank you very much, Mr. Minister.

Mr. Williamson for five minutes....

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you, Chair.

Minister, it's good to see you and your officials and colleagues here today.

I've got a couple of questions with respect to the main estimates. First I'm going to go back a year to 2013-14. I see that for Military Police Complaints Commission, the main estimates came in at $5.2 million. The estimates to date are $10.6 million.

Can you explain what happened here with the doubling of this budget?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Sometimes these are supplemented by supplementary estimates, but I think it's important to put in as close an estimate as to what is necessary. On all of these, we want to make sure that they have the tools, the resources, to get the job done. I'm sure you'll be looking at these much more in-depth and in detail, but as with all of these, we look very carefully at what is requested. Needless to say, there's considerable demand on the resources there and we want to make sure they have the capability to do that.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

I'm not quite sure. It doubled now, and now it's back to $5 million.

What happened for there to be a $5 million increase? Was it a one-time expenditure on something, and if so what...?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Maybe one of my colleagues can be more specific.

Kevin Lindsey.

[Kevin Lindsey, Chief Financial Officer, Department of National Defence]

Mr. Chair, although we will have to take this on notice and get back to you, I believe the additional supplementary funding in 2013 was to fund a inquiry. But we will have to confirm that and get back to you.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

If you could, please, thank you.

This year, the main estimates for CSEC are just under $800,000. The estimates to date for last year, 2013-14, were $410 ,000.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

I think that would be $800 million.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

I'm sorry. Excuse me. Yes, it is $800 million; it had been $410 million.

Could you explain this increase? What has caused this sharp rise? Is this a one-time increase, or are we going to see this every year going forward?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

To a certain extent it is a one time increase, in the sense that this is the new facility that they're moving into. It's a major expenditure, needless to say.

That being said, the role that CSEC plays is vitally important in protecting this country against cyber-attacks, cybercrime, and international terrorism. If you have a look at the breakdown, I suppose Mr. Forster might be able to give you some details.

Again, in answer directly to your question, it's one-off, in the sense that this is a new building that they are moving into and a considerable amount of funds have been allocated for that.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Is that a lot of money for a building? Is this something that taxpayers should be concerned about? It seems like an awful lot to spend on a federal building.