National Defence Committee on Dec. 5th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Unfortunately, Mrs. Kramp-Neuman, you're out of time. I'm sure someone will work in that question again.

Madam Lalonde, you have five minutes, please.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I would like to say thank you to our three witnesses who are here today.

Sergeant Banks, thank you for your service.

I'm going to start my questions with Ms. Truong.

You've been recognized, and I had the great pleasure of being part of that recognition. I know that today you're here to speak about the housing and family members, and I really appreciate your insight.

You were recognized as a leader with the Canadian Armed Forces spousal community and have been awarded the Liz Hoffman Memorial Commendation for your work as part of the Borden military family resource centre board of directors. I would really like you to share with me, and with our committee, the initiative that led to this recognition.

[Alyssa Truong]

Thank you. I appreciate that.

I became a military spouse seven years ago and started hearing of the great need our community had. I realized that I have a lot of tools in my tool box and the ability to meet some of those needs, so I took the opportunity to basically just be present. I read the relocation manual every year so that when spouses ask about moving, I can help answer those questions.

I also have had the opportunity to sit on the board of directors of the local MFRC, as well as to spearhead a community grassroots support network, which has been extremely life-giving to our community.

Those are some of the reasons why I was recognized, but I do want to amplify the fact that I am just one spouse and that there are many like me who take the opportunity to use their abilities, gifts and education to impact the defence community.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Thank you very much for that.

I want to at least acknowledge that recognition. I was privileged to be part of that, as were some of the committee members who are here.

Thanks for this.

I would like to ask Ms. Hill a question.

There's been a lot of conversation today. You referenced the lack of research.

As a researcher, if you had the opportunity, as you do today, to make a recommendation on how our committee can help Canadian military members and their families, what would it be?

[Shannon Hill]

That's a great question.

In my opinion, to properly support members and their families, we need to know what their experiences and needs are. As it relates to educational experiences, from a Canadian perspective, we just don't have that evidence base yet. We need to know what the experiences and needs are before we can create and implement responsive services and supports.

Related to child and youth education, I think raising awareness about this population would be super beneficial. As I said, it still remains an under-represented population. Just knowing this population has unique experiences and needs would be very beneficial.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Without putting words in your mouth, what I'm hearing is perhaps a few more dollars attached to a research project, so we don't have to go abroad or to the United States to better understand the lives of our Canadian military and their families, would be a recommendation.

[Shannon Hill]

Yes, absolutely. More funding for more research would be incredibly beneficial.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Thank you for that.

Sergeant Banks, I cannot leave this time without also giving you an opportunity to share a recommendation you might certainly appreciate to see. I know you talked about the federal assets component.

Are there other thoughts that could help this committee help with housing...and their families?

[Christopher Banks]

I think putting more of the maintenance contracts, the real property maintenance and management, back in the hands of the people who are accountable to the same system we are part of would probably go a long way. Representation is the one thing the military lacks, but it is constantly in demand. That's why it's a veteran sitting at this committee, not a serving member.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Go ahead, Mr. Champoux. You have two and a half minutes.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Truong, I'm curious to hear your opinion on something. These days, every sector is experiencing a labour shortage. Every private company is bending over backward to keep its staff and make sure people are happy. These businesses listen to their employees, look after them, coddle them. It's as though the CAF does the exact opposite.

Do you talk about that amongst yourselves? Do people feel discouraged by the treatment they receive in the armed forces? Are they seriously contemplating a change in career, as a result?

Positive change is clearly lacking when it comes to how CAF members are treated.

What's the general state of the troops, if I can put it that way?

[Alyssa Truong]

I'm not sure I can answer that question very eloquently, as a spouse. I can from a military spouse perspective. I know spouses leave their employment on a regular basis when they are posted.

I'm not sure I answered your question. However, rephrase it a little, if I didn't.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I'm talking about CAF members from a family standpoint. I'm wondering about the discussions military families have amongst themselves, spouse to spouse, say.

Do you talk about the fact that you don't necessarily feel that you're treated well or, at least, the same way people who work for companies in the private sector are treated? I'm referring to private employers who strive to keep their staff so they don't leave.

Do you feel that, because of how they are treated, military families are seeing military life as too great a sacrifice? Are members of the military contemplating changing careers because of that?

I'm more interested in the inherent difficulties of a career in the military and the challenge around member retention.

[Alyssa Truong]

That's a great question. I certainly do hear from spouses who are frustrated, but I think at the core of most frustrations I hear is that they just want to be cared for. That includes medical, education and housing. If those needs were met I think that individuals would feel additionally cared for and therefore probably just generally happier with their lifestyle.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Ms. Truong, just to continue on where you were going, we heard about those educational challenges that families encounter, but what about the challenges about finding child care provisions? Could you talk about that for this committee?

[Alyssa Truong]

Child care accessibility is a significant issue. It is probably one of the most common questions asked on the spouses group locally. Where can I find child care? As I'm sure many of you know, without child care, the primary parent cannot find work. It is a vicious cycle in which if child care is not accessible and affordable the, often, wife or mother cannot work. Therefore, that impacts the financial stability of the household.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

What is the situation in terms of how military families find child care? What does that look like? How available is it?

[Alyssa Truong]

Generally it is often very difficult because of the wait-list. I don't think this is just a military issue. I think this is probably a global Canadian issue that there are just simply not enough child care spots. Some bases have larger child care centres than others. Some offer emergency child care, some do not. There can be a little bit of a disparity of care depending on what base an individual lives on.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

In terms of supports that have been announced by the federal government to provide more affordable child care, what is the provision of the public spaces versus private spaces on bases? Can you give us a breakdown of that?

[Alyssa Truong]

Unfortunately, I can't speak to that at all. I'm not aware of what public spaces or private spaces would be available.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Ms. Mathyssen.

Mr. Kelly, you have five minutes.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Thanks.

Ms. Truong, I'd like to go back to your opening statement. You said, and I want to make sure that I got it clearly, that housing is the most significant stressor for military families.

[Alyssa Truong]

In my lived experience, I would say that is probably accurate.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Housing is deemed the single most significant stressor for military families.