National Defence Committee on Dec. 12th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Unfortunately, Ambassador, we're going to have to leave that answer there.

Colleagues, we have slightly less than 25 minutes, and we have 25 minutes' worth of questions. If we're fairly crisp, I think we can do it.

Mr. Bezan, you have five minutes.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ambassador, thank you for appearing today. I hope that you're staying safe, knowing how dangerous things can be even in Kyiv. Pat and I have been there and heard the air sirens and seen the damage that has been done in the city, never mind outside the city.

First of all, on behalf of the Conservatives, we thank all those Ukrainian heroes who originally took to the streets of the Maidan, and then went to the front line in Donbas, and who now are fighting for the very existence of Ukraine and, as you said, are protecting Canadians here at home as you deal with the Russian invasion and protecting NATO's eastern flank.

Conservatives support Ukraine. We support Operation Unifier. We started Operation Unifier. We support the delivery of weapons and military kit. We started that process back in 2015. We've been calling for the government to send lethal weapons since 2018, which didn't happen until the hot war and full-scale invasion happened in 2022. We know there's probably more that we can do, including providing more munitions, more sniper rifles, made right here in Canada, both by Colt and by PGW in Winnipeg.

I know both organizations have already supplied sniper rifles and machine guns. We also know that we have surplus kit here that we can use. I know Ukraine is getting armoured ambulances from Canada that are being built at GDLS in London, but that will be done after the Canadian armoured ambulances are finished off and supplied to the Canadian Armed Forces. This means that our existing fleet of armoured ambulances, which are LAVs that are still in running condition, should be donated to Ukraine.

Would you agree that that would be a welcome donation to support the Ukrainian armed forces?

[Yuliya Kovaliv]

As I've already said, we definitely need both the armoured vehicles with the equipment installed and the vehicles for so-called medevac. Both of them are needed on the front line.

In particular, I don't want to commend any particular company. However, I would say the only thing that is of parallel importance, including what weapons are installed, is the ability to supply the spare parts—sustainability for the maintenance. As all of this equipment is heavily used—it's not in peacekeeping missions, but a real front-line vehicle—the ability to quickly repair it, maintain it and change the spare parts so that it can have a longer life is also the important thing.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

I believe that's done easily enough by providing enough of the ambulances. The ones in poorer condition could be used as spare parts for the other ones until the new ones got built and arrived.

We also have brand new Role 3 mobile hospitals that were bought. I think a dozen of them were bought for the pandemic but never even taken out of the container. Would the brand new Role 3 hospitals be helpful to ensure that those who have significant and traumatic injuries are treated more quickly at the Ukrainian front line?

[Yuliya Kovaliv]

As of now, I can't say that this is top on the priority list. The medevacs are able to quickly deliver the injured to the first line of support and the second line of support. As far as I know, this is not on the top priority list.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

I know there's a bit of concern still about the battles that are going on at Avdiivka and down in Kherson, but also near the nuclear plant in Zaporizhzhia. Can you give us a quick update on how things are going in securing that nuclear plant in Zaporizhzhia?

[Yuliya Kovaliv]

It's really important, because that is another example of how Russia is actually using a civil nuclear object as another part of their warfare.

They control the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power station. There are missions. The IAEA, in their report, clearly stated that there are weapons installed in the territory of the nuclear power station. There is one more thing, which is the risk. The personnel are working under pressure. They're not working according to the norms and the rotation norms. The people are threatened, and it also does not help to increase their security.

The situation is an awfully big risk, including their attempts at shelling around the station. There were for the last—

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Unfortunately, we have to leave the answer there.

Thank you, Mr. Bezan.

Mr. Fillmore, you have five minutes.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Ambassador Kovaliv, it's very nice to see you again. I wish it were under better circumstances for you. The conditions you're experiencing in Kyiv right now are bringing the war into very strong focus for us all here. It's wonderful to have you today. Please do us the great favour of staying safe.

Ambassador, we know, and you've in fact referenced, that the sale of Russian oil is helping to fund the Russian war machine. You and I have spoken before, on various occasions, including at the Halifax International Security Forum, about Canada's readiness to provide and even export renewable energy options into Europe to help Europe get off Russian oil.

I want to declare that Canada is absolutely committed to working with our European partners and the Ukraine to achieve our shared goals on energy security. So far, this has included the Canada-Germany and Canada-EU hydrogen alliance. It's included Bill C-49, which will modernize the Atlantic accords to allow the development of offshore green hydrogen for export to Europe and to Ukraine. There's also a recent deal between Canada and Romania to build new CANDU reactors, which will also shut off the need for coal and Russian oil and gas.

Ambassador, I wonder if you could just speak to the shared priorities between Canada and Ukraine when it comes to Europe's long-term energy security.

[Yuliya Kovaliv]

Since February 21, Europe has made a significant step forward in energy diversification and getting rid of dependency on Russian oil and gas. Of course, diversification of the energy flow is important. Europe is increasing renewables shared with Ukraine. We also see its rebuilding and maintaining the mixture of energy sources and the development of clean energy.

I would also like to say that we are already building strong co-operation with Canada in the energy sector. Just this year, the Canadian company Cameco and the Ukrainian operator of all of our nuclear power stations signed a 10-year contract for the supply of uranium, and Canada is helping us. Before, pre-wartime—by which I mean before 2014—Ukraine was buying most of this nuclear power fuel from Russia. Now we are buying it from the Canadian-owned company Westinghouse, and Cameco will provide uranium as a source for production of this nuclear fuel, so we really appreciate the strategic partnership that has started. The contracts were signed this year.

We also signed an MOU with our hydro power operator and another Canadian infrastructure company to help us to build hydro power facilities in Ukraine, because, in the Ukrainian strategy for rebuilding, Ukraine sees itself as the energy hub for Europe, having one of the most developed energy infrastructures in electricity, oil and gas. We have the biggest gas storage capability on the European continent, which is, even during the war, widely used by all of the European gas traders, so Ukraine will, of course, put a lot of effort into rebuilding the energy sector and into building more capacity in gas production, renewable energy and nuclear, which, as of today, is 50% of Ukrainian electricity production. We see here big opportunities for co-operation with Canadian companies.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Thank you.

I look forward to our next conversation, Ambassador. I'm going to yield the remainder of my time to my colleague, Yvan Baker.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thanks very much. That's very kind.

Very briefly, Ambassador, we're all thinking about you and the Ukrainian people at this very difficult time, and especially today.

You said something during your remarks about the fact that in this war, Ukrainians are not just fighting for their own country—their own survival, to protect themselves from Russia's attacks—but also doing a service to the rest of the world.

Can you talk about why Ukraine's fight is a fight not only for Ukraine but for the rest of the world as well?

[Yuliya Kovaliv]

As we all remember, NATO, as an alliance, was created post Second World War to build security, first and foremost—collective security. Of course, Russia, as of today, is named specifically as one of the biggest threats to NATO.

In my introductory remarks, I shared with you the figures on how much Russian equipment we have already destroyed, how much Russia has had losses in its manpower, but also how Russian military capabilities have been reduced, which helps to strengthen security for NATO countries.

The second important point is that it helps—

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I'm sorry, Ambassador. I'm running a clock here, unfortunately.

That's a very important question, and I feel that you are unpacking a very important answer, but I'm going to have to cut you off, unfortunately. I hope you can work it back into some other answer.

You have two and a half minutes, Ms. Normandin.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much.

Madam Ambassador, experts have informed us of the fact that Russia seemed to have amassed a number of missiles in preparation for a much larger offensive over the winter, mainly targeting infrastructure.

I'd like to know if supplying air defence systems is the only way that we can support Ukraine or if there was a way to also support the resilience of Ukrainian infrastructure.

Is there anything other than air defence that could help protect infrastructure?

[Yuliya Kovaliv]

I'll give you the figure. One missile for the air defence system can cost from $500,000 to $4 million. One destroyed energy object can cost from $20 million plus. Investing and helping us with air defence helps us to not have tens and hundreds of millions of dollars in losses of critical infrastructure.

Plus, electronic warfare and drones.... Many of our partners are also learning what modern warfare is. This war is also a war where there are a lot of drones used—electronic warfare—and the ability to land the drones and the ability to bring them down and not allow them to destroy either the position of our troops or the civilian infrastructure is important.

Modern technology in electronic warfare and the different types of drones are also important needs as the war takes on a very specific technological aspect.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Russia seems to be placing its assets deeper and deeper into the territory. Would supplying more long-range missiles be useful to the Ukrainian offensive?

[Yuliya Kovaliv]

Of course. Long-range missiles will help us to destroy Russian logistics and Russian military capabilities in the warehouses.

Actually, one of the breakthroughs in the counteroffensive operation when we liberated Kherson was the usage of HIMARS and the ability for them to destroy the logistic chains. Also, it worked with some of the military bases in Ukrainian Crimea—the illegal Russian military bases.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Madam Ambassador....

[Yuliya Kovaliv]

The long-range missiles are important for us.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I apologize again for cutting you off, but I'm just trying to get through this in a timely way.

Ms. Mathyssen, you have two and half minutes.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I think I'd actually like to hear the rest of the ambassador's response to Mr. Baker's question. It was on point. I'd give my time for that.

[Yuliya Kovaliv]

Thank you. It's really important.

One, as I've told you, we are protecting the eastern flank of NATO. You mentioned the other situation, Russian troops near the Polish border. It seems as if it would mean that all of the NATO countries, instead of supporting the welfare of their citizens, would need to invest more in their military to defend themselves.

The second thing is security in the Arctic region. As we are now fighting with Russia and destroying their equipment, we are decreasing the Russian military capability in the Arctic. That is of significant importance for many countries that have a presence in the Arctic. Actually, Ukraine is also protecting the Arctic.

The third thing is democracy itself. None of the leaders of democratic countries could ever wage a war with such a high level of losses. Russia does not care, because Russia does not have any democracy. When we look to the future, for many emerging economies, countries are now choosing their path, whether to become a democracy and build strong institutions or to look to the way of the Russian dictatorship, and they are closely watching what is happening in Ukraine, the support for Ukraine.

The victory of Ukraine in this war will set, for a decade, the pattern for many developing countries in terms of how they develop themselves. Either they will choose human rights, democracy and the international order, or they will choose Russia's pattern.

I think it's in all our hands to make the right choice now.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Ms. Mathyssen.

Ms. Gallant, you have five minutes.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Madam Ambassador, Ukraine has been a constant target for the Russian cyber-attacks, yet it remains resilient. How has Ukraine's cybersecurity adapted to Russia's cyberwarfare since the war began?