Natural Resources Committee on Feb. 12th, 2008

[Lloyd St. Amand, Liberal, Brant, ON]

What was the date of the press release with respect to your appointment? Do you know?

[Cassie Doyle]

Let me just check that....

Mr. Chair, I believe it was about a week later. Let me get back to you with the exact date.

[Lloyd St. Amand, Liberal, Brant, ON]

It's my understanding that from the time you were deputy minister, this was the first board appointment that you were offered and that you accepted. Is that correct?

[Cassie Doyle]

Yes, Mr. Chair, that is correct.

[Lloyd St. Amand, Liberal, Brant, ON]

Yet--and I don't mean this disrespectfully, Ms. Doyle--you want us to believe it's merely a coincidence that you were appointed to the board of AECL within a few days of your department's becoming aware of the situation at Chalk River.

[Cassie Doyle]

Mr. Chair, I understand that this seems to be a coincidence, but in fact the nuclear file within--

[Lloyd St. Amand, Liberal, Brant, ON]

No. Actually, we're saying it's not a coincidence.

[Cassie Doyle]

I just want to say that I disagree with the premise that there is any connection between the reactor shutdown at Chalk River and my appointment to the board of AECL. I do want to reiterate that on the nuclear front there are other things going on, particularly the restructuring review. That was announced on November 29. It was made public by the minister on November 29. So I just want to reiterate that this is a very active file because of the renaissance in the nuclear area.

[Lloyd St. Amand, Liberal, Brant, ON]

We understand.

I take it, Ms. Doyle, that you regularly would watch or follow the proceedings in question period?

[Cassie Doyle]

Mr. Chair, I usually follow the transcripts after the fact.

[Lloyd St. Amand, Liberal, Brant, ON]

So you became aware of the fact that on December 3 Minister Lunn said in the House of Commons that the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission is “absolutely independent of...government”. You became aware of his saying that on the floor of the House of Commons on December 3.

[Cassie Doyle]

Mr. Chair, I can't recall that reference, but if it was in the question period transcripts, then I likely had seen it.

[Lloyd St. Amand, Liberal, Brant, ON]

Then you had a briefing on December 4 with respect to Chalk River.

[Cassie Doyle]

That's correct.

[Lloyd St. Amand, Liberal, Brant, ON]

On December 5, then, knowing what Minister Lunn had said on December 3 and knowing that you had very recently been appointed to the board of AECL, did you contact PCO to see whether or not you were in a conflict of interest when you sat in on the calls on December 5 and December 8?

[Cassie Doyle]

Mr. Chair, I had advice prior to my appointment to AECL, but again I will reiterate that I provide advice to the minister. I am his principal advisor on all matters within his portfolio. In the role I played throughout the period of time, which was a role of trying to resolve an issue that was creating a very urgent health situation in the country, I don't believe I had any conflict of interest. No, I did not seek advice.

[Lloyd St. Amand, Liberal, Brant, ON]

Did you or anyone, to the best of your knowledge, receive an opinion from PCO about the minister's intervention with the quasi-judicial body--CNSC--by way of his initiating phone calls on both December 5 and December 8? Was PCO contacted about the propriety or the appropriateness of that?

[Cassie Doyle]

Mr. Chair, the central agencies involved were very much aware of the formal call that was undertaken between the minister and the head of CNSC.

[Lloyd St. Amand, Liberal, Brant, ON]

When you say the “central agencies”, do you mean the PCO...?

[Cassie Doyle]

Yes, I do mean the PCO, and I mean that we received advice from other areas as well.

[Lloyd St. Amand, Liberal, Brant, ON]

Do you know the name of the person at PCO from whom you received advice?

[Cassie Doyle]

I just want to clarify, Mr. Chair, that it was not advice that we were seeking. The work that was undertaken to resolve a very urgent health situation in Canada was a strategy that was being developed day by day, so there were a number of individuals at PCO who were aware that we had been in touch with CNSC, that this type of communication on administrative matters was provided for under Canada's Nuclear Safety and Control Act, and that we intended to continue to be working away at trying to resolve this situation, which, as you know, was not able to be resolved. We instead brought forward legislation into the House during that week.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you, Mr. St. Amand.

We'll go now to Monsieur Ouellet for five minutes.

[Christian Ouellet, Bloc, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Ms. Doyle, the committee heard testimony from Mr. Malkoske, an MDS Nordion official. He said that November 22 was a memorable day for them because a state of emergency already existed. You just said that there was no urgency until December 3, when the minister was apprised of the situation. I find that odd. Do you have any contact with MDS? Mr. Malkoske also told us that AECL was his communications link.

[Cassie Doyle]

Thank you for the question.

As I have mentioned, the only contact that MDS Nordion had with the department prior to the end of November was a reference made at a meeting on November 22. At that time the outage was characterized as being temporary and possibly extending into December. The impact on the supply of isotopes was presented as a possibility and wasn't yet confirmed.

I go back to the fact that at the time there was a plan in place on the part of AECL to resume the reactor with one pump, and that was the focus of attention. But to repeat—I think I've answered this question—MDS Nordion was not in touch with our department outside of raising this in a meeting on another subject matter on November 22.