Natural Resources Committee on Nov. 27th, 2013

[Mike Allen, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

That's great. Thank you very much.

I would like to ask you a question with respect to Atomic Energy of Canada Limited, the vote 15(b) for the $15 million. I understand that is associated with Nordion. I think one of the comments was that it's to clean up the remaining items associated with the file with Nordion.

Is there further exposure beyond this $15 million, or does this wrap up all the requirements?

[Serge Dupont]

No. That amounted to a full release of all outstanding disputes between AECL and Nordion.

[Mike Allen, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Thank you very much for that.

When we started giving to the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission, the funding vote 20(b), which is funding for regulatory services and funding to streamline government import regulations and border processes for commercial trade.... The minister talked a little bit about that when he was here.

What type of regulatory services are being added, and were these not known in April? Or have some of the efforts to increase the amount of regulatory oversight led to this additional allocation to the Nuclear Safety Commission?

[Serge Dupont]

There were two parts to the CNSC additional moneys. The $2.2 million really represented the carry forward of unspent revenue from the previous fiscal year, and it is a bit of a quirk in the way that the CNSC financing works.

Departments typically can carry forward up to 5% of unspent operating money to the next year. The CNSC was not able to do that for moneys that had been earned from fees from regulated entities. We're now fixing it, so that if, for example, a regulated entity is paying in a particular year and the service is not rendered immediately, that money can be carried forward to the following year. That's going to be fixed in the future but was not this year, so it has to come back as a supplementary estimate in the amount of $2.2 million.

There is also $800,000 that the CNSC is receiving to cover its costs associated with a single-window initiative, which the minister spoke about. That relates, for example, to imports of parts for nuclear installations in Canada from OPG or others.

[Mike Allen, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

That's helpful.

When you get to the bottom of the budget, there is $474,680 of total statutory appropriations.

Can you give us a bit of detail on what is in those statutory appropriations?

[Serge Dupont]

The statutory appropriations...I'll go to the actual. I just want to be sure I'm talking about the right amount.

Are you talking about the $1.3 billion, roughly?

[Mike Allen, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Actually, when you look at the part down at the bottom of Natural Resources, page 2-68 on the detail by organization, there is a $474,680 amount called “total statutory appropriations”.

I wonder if you would give some detail on that.

[Serge Dupont]

The statutory appropriations for Natural Resources Canada largely represent the in, in and out, and the out of the amount paid in respect of royalties for Atlantic Canada offshore oil and gas. The amounts are not paid directly to the provinces of Newfoundland and Labrador, and Nova Scotia; they are paid to the Government of Canada—to us. It is a straight pass-through over to the provinces. There are adjustments to those amounts in year, in order to reflect any particular insight we have into the amounts that are being transferred or will be transferred.

[Mike Allen, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Thank you, Minister.

I think my time has passed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you, Mr. Allen.

We go now to Monsieur Gravelle, for up to seven minutes.

Go ahead, please.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for being here.

As you know, the Ring of Fire in northern Ontario is a great big project. It could lead northern Ontario—and Ontario and Canada—into some better economic times.

Can you tell me how much money your department has spent on the Ring of Fire?

[Serge Dupont]

I would not be able to give you the amount of money we have spent specifically on the Ring of Fire; we have not had a specific allocation for that. We obviously have the mines and minerals service within Industry Canada, where we collaborate in various ventures related to arranging the mining projects in Canada.

As you know, other entities, the economic agency for northern Ontario, has been on the front lines in collaborating with the Government of Ontario with regard the Ring of Fire. It's not Natural Resources Canada.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

Are you telling me that Natural Resources hasn't spent any money on the Ring of Fire or don't know if they spent any? Is that what you're telling me?

[Serge Dupont]

I think what I told you is that we have been working with other partners in the federal family and with the Government of Ontario through our officials and working in different fora and so forth. But there is not a specific allocation. There is not a specific envelope called Ring of Fire in the Department of Natural Resources Canada. There is another department in the Government of Canada that has had the lead in working with the Government of Ontario in advancing the goals of the Ring of Fire.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

I know that FedNor has spent some money on the Ring of Fire but mining is a natural resource. From what I hear, the Department of Natural Resources has not spent any money on the development of the Ring of Fire.

[Serge Dupont]

Mr. Chair, if I may, that's not what I said. We are allocating resources to this project, as to a range of other projects across the country, whether it's through the regulatory side as well through the major projects management office, through the mines and minerals sector of Natural Resources Canada. I'm saying there is not an envelope called Ring of Fire in our budget that would allow me to give you a number on what those resources would represent.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

Because this is such a big project not only for northern Ontario but for Ontario and the rest of Canada do you think there should be a budget line for the Ring of Fire?

[Serge Dupont]

There are quite a number of resource areas in Canada. Our resources are applied across a range in the north, the west, Atlantic Canada, Ontario, and Quebec. I also don't have a number for the northern Quebec projects, which are also very important.

We try to be responsive to the needs through the regulatory system and others. So we don't tabulate per project or per category of project.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

Is the Department of Natural Resources doing anything specific to advance the Ring of Fire?

[Serge Dupont]

We collaborate with other agencies but it's important to bear in mind that what those projects require in terms of government support, be it from the provincial governments or the federal government, isn't necessarily mining expertise in this particular case. They require infrastructure. They require relationships with aboriginal Canadians. They are a range of services or supports that are not necessarily within Natural Resources Canada or indeed necessarily within the Government of Canada, a lot of it is with the Government of Ontario.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

When Cliffs Natural Resources, one of the mining companies in the Ring of Fire, came to committee in February 2012, what they stated at the time is, “Just tell us what the rules are and we'll follow them”. Have the rules concerning the Ring of Fire been clarified?

[Serge Dupont]

The rules that have been clarified essentially, as you know, are the rules regarding environmental assessments at the federal level, and how various permitting processes would work with the projects as well. However, there is also again a very important responsibility for the Government of Ontario to determine how it will address and manage its environmental assessment requirements.

So we have clarified under the responsible resource development initiative what the federal regulatory framework is for these and other projects across Canada. There may be a question of how the Government of Ontario itself moves the regulatory process forward and then how we collaborate to ensure that we've progressed toward what you know is a goal of one project, one review.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

So what is the amount of unspent money in total for the Department of Natural Resources last year?

[Serge Dupont]

I could certainly get you the number. Unfortunately I don't have it offhand.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

A ballpark figure?