Evidence of meeting #22 for Official Languages in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was i'd.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Rodrigue Landry  Director, Canadian Institute for Research on Linguistics Minorities
Julie Gilman  Coordinator, Prince Edward Island French Language Health Services Network
Jeannita Bernard  Member, Prince Edward Island French Language Health Services Network
Lizanne Thorne  Director general, Société Saint-Thomas-d'Aquin
Nicole Drouin  Director general, Fédération des parents francophones de l'Île-du-Prince-Édouard
Paul d'Entremont  Coordinator, Réseau santé Nouvelle-Écosse
Alphonsine Saulnier  Chair, Réseau santé Nouvelle-Écosse

9:05 a.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Yvon Godin

I'd like to welcome you. As you all know, my name is Yvon Godin, and I am the second Vice-Chair of the Standing Committee on Official Languages.

This is the second province we've visited. Yesterday, we visited Newfoundland; we went to St. John's, Newfoundland. This is the first time in its 25 years of existence that the Standing Committee on Official Languages has travelled in the country to meet its citizens directly in the provinces. One may perhaps wonder why we didn't go to Prince Edward Island and Nova Scotia to visit people directly in their province. As you can see, the committee has been around for 25 years and has never travelled. Let's put our cards on the table right off the top: it wasn't even easy to get to Moncton. We were supposed to travel last year, but that was cancelled because of the election.

Our committee consists of members from all the political parties. As you can see, the government is represented by Sylvie Boucher, Pierre Lemieux and Daniel Petit, the official opposition is represented by Jean-Claude D'Amours and Raymond Simard, and Guy André represents the Bloc québécois.

This morning, we'll start with Prince Edward Island. The purpose of this trip was to go to the regions. That made it possible to meet with the organizations that very often don't have a chance to come to Ottawa. However, that wasn't the only reason. It also gave us the chance to make some checks. For example, is the Action Plan for Official Languages working in the region? Do citizens have any questions? Do they have any suggestions to make to the government? Based on that, we'll draft a report and also examine the Action Plan for Official Languages. We're looking at health, education, culture, in short, everything. I want to hear what you have to say on those subjects.

We're here with our analyst, Jean-Rodrigue Paré, Samy Agha, the committee clerk, Louise Thibault, procedural clerk, our technicians and our translators. On the technical side, in particular for translation, you don't have to touch the microphones because everything will be done automatically.

With that, we're going to start, and you'll have to introduce yourselves. As I said, we'll start with Prince Edward Island. Mr. Landry isn't really from Prince Edward Island, but, from what I've been told, he's representing the Atlantic Region as a whole.

9:05 a.m.

Rodrigue Landry Director, Canadian Institute for Research on Linguistics Minorities

I represent the Canadian Institute for Research on Linguistic Minorities.

9:05 a.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Yvon Godin

So we invited him to this meeting. People from Prince Edward Island will join us later, including Ms. Thorne, who's just now arriving. Good morning, Ms. Thorne. We're just starting.

Each of you will have three minutes. You'll tell me that's very short, but the committee is quite aware of what is going on, and we want to give members the chance to ask you questions. Then you can elaborate on your ideas. You're the experts in the field.

With that, we can begin. Thank you.

9:05 a.m.

Director, Canadian Institute for Research on Linguistics Minorities

Rodrigue Landry

Good morning. My name is Rodrigue Landry, and I am the director of the Canadian Institute for Research on Linguistic Minorities.

The Institute is funded by the federal government and is concerned with official language minorities. As researchers, we conduct studies on Anglophones in Quebec and Francophones outside Quebec.

We would have had a lot of things to say about the action plan, but we chose to emphasize four points. We've submitted a written brief to you that we didn't have the time to have translated, but it will soon be submitted to you in both languages.

During the three minutes I have, I can't give as many details as I would like about the four points that I want to emphasize. They're explained much more clearly in our brief.

The first point concerns early childhood. In our opinion, this is the biggest challenge for the Francophone and Acadian communities. Currently, at least 40% of child rights holders under section 23 are not attending French-language schools.

One of the decisive factors is exogamy, which is increasing. Approximately two-thirds of these children come from exogamous couples; they have a Francophone parent and an Anglophone parent. In most cases, unfortunately, those families choose English as the language spoken at home. French is the spoken language for one in five children.

Our research shows that exogamy isn't a direct cause of assimilation. The choice made by parents is the direct cause. Some parents make an informed choice. For example, all parents transmit their knowledge of their language to their children, who go to French-language school because that's the school where the minority studies. That enables children to be bilingual. Our research also shows that the children of exogamous families who attend French-language schools are the best bilinguals in the country.

The exogamous family is a microcosm of Canadian society. The relationship between the two official languages exists within a family. These parents must be encouraged to make an informed choice in order to respect both cultures. Very often, it's not a matter of bad will. I can't say any more on that here, but parents aren't always aware of the conditions.

By way of a solution, we refer you to an excellent study that was conducted by the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages, which tabled its preliminary report in June 2005. In that report, the committee recommended that education be monitored from early childhood until the postsecondary level. We think it contains excellent suggestions and we refer you to that report because we can't immediately give you more details on our recommendations.

The second point we would like to emphasize concerns economic development. Economic development was initially not part of the action plan. We gave it a certain amount of attention after the mid-term report. We think that projects aren't yet being funded directly enough. Feasibility studies and business plans are mainly being done, and there's not really any money to pursue projects.

We therefore ask those who'll be preparing the plan to see whether they couldn't elaborate more on this entire approach.

The third point, and I think this is very important, concerns the action plan's overall approach. I've been conducting studies on linguistic minorities for approximately 30 years, and I'm convinced that the action plan, as interesting as it may be, will never be able to reverse the situation, if I may say, in order to help the official language communities revitalize, particularly the Francophone communities.

A lot of attempts have been made in the world. Canada could become an example of minority language revitalization in the world because it already has a well-structured approach. We think the plan should have a much more comprehensive approach and also include the actions of the provinces and communities. That may be a lot, but we're really serious about this. If we want the plan to have real impact, the federal government has to establish a comprehensive partnership with, for example, the Ministerial Conference on the Canadian Francophonie and the communities. I think we could even include Quebec.

The last point I want to raise concerns research.

Research is obviously of interest to us. We think that, in the first plan, it wasn't pushed enough in terms of linguistic planning. A linguistic plan should address the needs of the communities. If you want to meet needs, you have to know what they are, and research can help a great deal in that respect. Praiseworthy attempts have been made. For example, the Humanities Research Council of Canada is conducting a three-year project that will end this year. The Canadian Institutes of Health Research, the CIHR, is starting to take an interest in the subject. It has an advisory committee on official languages, and that committee is considering introducing programs. In our view, however, there will still have to be a much more stable program.

Linguistic duality is at the core of the Canadian identity. It seems to me there could be a permanent fund providing research grants on this question.

9:10 a.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Yvon Godin

Thank you, Mr. Landry. The time available to you is quite short, but you can send us a brief. That would help us in developing our report.

9:10 a.m.

Director, Canadian Institute for Research on Linguistics Minorities

Rodrigue Landry

We submitted it this morning.

9:10 a.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Yvon Godin

Okay. You can add other things to it as well.

Ms. Gilman.

9:10 a.m.

Julie Gilman Coordinator, Prince Edward Island French Language Health Services Network

Thank you very much. On behalf of the Prince Edward Island French-Language Health Services Network, I'd like to thank you for having us today. My name is Julie Gilman, and I'm the coordinator of the network and French-language services analyst at the Prince Edward Island Ministry of Health.

I'd like to introduce Ms. Jeannita Bernard, who is a member of the network's board and a nurse by training. She is currently head of the regular training department at the Société éducative, the Francophone community college of Prince Edward Island.

Our network differs from the other 16 French-language health services networks in Canada in that its structure reflects a close joint effort between the provincial government and the Acadian and Francophone community of Prince Edward Island. We have two co-chairs, one on the community side and the other on the government side. I would remind you that you met the government co-chair, Donald DesRoches, in Ottawa on October 5. Unfortunately, neither Claude Blaquière nor Donald DesRoches could be here today.

Our network enjoys community, provincial and federal support and has had success with the four projects introduced by Health Canada's Primary Health Care Transition Fund. A virtual French-language health care services site, a French-language resource centre, a health prevention and promotion program for Francophones and a videoconferencing initiative have been established. As a result of this last project, the students at La-Belle-Cloche school in Souris have communicated with the public health nurse for the first time in French. The videoconferencing project, like the others, has developed into a habit. Now the health care system is equipped to provide services in French in the region where the Acadian and Francophone community is most isolated.

In addition, we are particularly proud of our action plan to provide primary health care services in French, which is part of the Préparer le terrain project. That plan, which has been validated by our community and government partners, provides a detailed presentation of necessary primary health care services by region.

Our partnerships are established, our plan is prepared. Now we need the necessary resources to implement it all so that we can provide quality health care services to the Acadians and Francophones of Prince Edward Island.

9:15 a.m.

Jeannita Bernard Member, Prince Edward Island French Language Health Services Network

The shortage of human resources capable of providing services in French is a real challenge facing our province. If our action plan were implemented today, Prince Edward Island would be unable to fill all the positions required to provide French-language health care services to the public. We therefore need the federal government's support in order to make progress on training in French in the health field.

In Prince Edward Island, the Francophone postsecondary institution Société éducative de l'Île-du-Prince-Édouard is not a full-fledged member of the Consortium national de formation en français, the CNFS. Until it becomes one, we'll be facing major barriers to the training and retention of health professionals. Our network is working hard to support the planning and delivery of quality health care services in French that are suited to the local reality and the needs of the Acadian and Francophone community of Prince Edward Island .

The results of our efforts are obvious when you consider the commitment of our partners. However, you still can't make a lasting change in four years. To achieve that goal, it is important that the federal government provide continuing, long-term support beyond 2008, whether it be through the Société Santé en français, which ensures the operation of networks and improved access to services, or for the Consortium national de formation en santé, which facilitates the recruitment of Francophone professionals through the training offered by its members.

The government of Prince Edward Island is resolutely committed to supporting the vitality of the province's Acadian and Francophone community. The enactment of the French-Language Services Act in 2000 attests to that. The fact that your committee is here in the region shows that you support the vitality of the linguistic minority community that is so important to us.

Thank you.

9:15 a.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Yvon Godin

Ms. Thorne.

9:15 a.m.

Lizanne Thorne Director general, Société Saint-Thomas-d'Aquin

Good morning, everyone. I represent the Société Saint-Thomas-d'Aquin de l'Île-du-Prince-Édouard, the organism that is the mouthpiece of Acadians and Francophones in the province. I apologize on behalf of our new president, Mr. Edmond Richard. He wanted to be here today, but had to go to Quebec City for the launch of the new policy.

We have approximately 136,000 inhabitants in Prince Edward Island. Of that number, approximately 4.4% have French as their mother tongue. However, if you add all those who speak French, there is a total of more than 16,000 Francophones, 12% of the population. In Prince Edward Island, we have significant potential for developing the Acadian and Francophone community.

As Mr. Landry has already said, exogamy and assimilation are very important issues for us. In Prince Edward Island, the Acadian assimilation rate is much higher than it is nationally. It is approximately 56%, whereas the national average is 31%. That means we're facing serious challenges.

The action plan has enabled us to make the targeted departments more aware of the provision of services and of the challenges facing the Acadian and Francophone community. However, we haven't enjoyed significant investment directly related to community development, that is to say of our French-language communities in an English-dominant environment. If we have one recommendation to make, it would be that this deficiency be corrected.

Since 2001, the number of French-language schools in Prince Edward Island has increased from two to six. The offer of services has risen and demand is still increasing. Unfortunately, funding allocated to our communities has not increased. Consequently, we are having trouble meeting the demand that we have created by establishing these centres.

As their name suggests, the school-community centres have a community development component, and that component is related to the French-language schools. That makes all the difference in our communities when it comes to developing Francophonie and fighting assimilation. However, to do this, we need significant investment at the federal and provincial levels. Similarly to what Mr. Landry said, I would say that our provinces should be included in the action plan as regards the areas of jurisdiction for which they're responsible.

In addition, the preschool centres are of the highest importance for us. I know that my colleague Nicole Drouin will be talking about that as well. For the moment, our young children start school without good knowledge of the language. Not every generation of parents has had access to French-language schools. That's another very important priority that would require greater investment.

In spite of everything, good things are happening in Prince Edward Island. Among other things, we've created a tripartite human resources development committee, consisting of representatives of the federal and provincial governments as well as the community. Since the action plan went into effect, we note that the group has expanded. That has created work. More and more federal governments targeted by the action plan are being added, thus making the services provided by the federal and provincial governments and by the communities more accessible to the French-language communities. Among other things, we've seen a number of departments get involved in developing an action plan that will help specifically to enhance the accessibility of services offered in French.

A large part of the action plan could involve the tripartite group and, among other things, the Vision Plan, the comprehensive development plan for the Acadian and Francophone community. This is an exhaustive plan in which more than 500-member stakeholders of our community have taken part, either through consultations or the plan's development. The plan touches on all aspects of the development of our community.

9:20 a.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Yvon Godin

Thank you, Ms. Thorne.

Ms. Drouin.

9:20 a.m.

Nicole Drouin Director general, Fédération des parents francophones de l'Île-du-Prince-Édouard

My name is Nicole Drouin, and I'm Director General of the Fédération des parents francophones de l'Île-du-Prince-Édouard. Our federation represents parents on all issues relating to education and early childhood in Prince Edward Island.

As regards education in French, we've made enormous progress in Prince Edward Island in the past five or six years. As Ms. Thorne mentioned, the number of French-language schools has increased from two to six. There is now one school per Francophone academic region, which is a good step forward.

Our current priorities are mainly in the area of early childhood. We are affiliated with the Commission nationale des parents francophones, whose main priority for a number of years now has been early childhood. Last year, we were able to work with our partners on the development of a strategic plan to develop early childhood in Prince Edward Island through the support of the CNPF and the Department of Social Development.

There's still a lot to do in this area. To supplement Mr. Landry's remarks, I would say that there are many challenges because needs are numerous. In many cases, families are exogamous, and often hard to reach. It's not easy to provide full services meeting all needs in the area of early childhood. The regions are small, but the clientele is large. It's hard to secure human, financial and material resources. In a minority setting, for early childhood purposes, it's even difficult to get access to books, video cassettes and so on.

According to the research, language develops very early. We're talking about the period between the age of six months and three years. Early childhood services suffer major deficiencies in this area in Prince Edward Island, particularly with regard to exogamous families, where the use of both English and French in the home is common. It is all the more important to provide children with the opportunity to learn French and to access all kinds of activities.

Under the Action Plan for Official Languages, major funding has been allocated to early childhood for research and family literacy. That's good, but there should be more investment in this area. Ad hoc projects are appreciated, but we need longer-term plans in order to extend projects that are helping us in the short term.

9:25 a.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Yvon Godin

Thank you very much. We'll now move on to questions.

Mr. Jean-Claude D'Amours.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Jean-Claude D'Amours Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank you for taking the time to come and present your demands to the Standing Committee on Official Languages. I'd also like to welcome colleagues from my province, New Brunswick. I want to welcome you to our beautiful bilingual province.

My first question could be for Ms. Drouin or Ms. Thorne.

Both of you mentioned that the number of French-language schools in Prince Edward Island has increased from two to six. I suppose that whole process wasn't easy. Could you tell me whether the Court Challenges Program has been useful to you in this process? Ultimately, the point for you is to promote your demands in a positive way and to ensure you can provide young people with an education in French in Prince Edward Island.

9:25 a.m.

Director general, Société Saint-Thomas-d'Aquin

Lizanne Thorne

The Court Challenges Program was obviously essential and crucial in getting our six schools. We had two, and, if we hadn't taken the Government of Prince Edward Island to court to get schools in the regions that didn't have any, that is Summerside, West Prince and Rustico first of all, we still might not have our schools today.

It's thanks to the Court Challenges Program that we were able to get to the Supreme Court to win the right to have our schools in our communities.

Before that, we sent our children to Francophone schools by bus, and the trip sometimes took more than an hour.

Even now, at least two or three of our schools don't have adequate facilities. They are currently in leased buildings or leased space. One primary school, among others, shares a building with a bar, and the facility is distinctly inadequate.

We were even about to prepare and file another application with the Court Challenges Program to make some progress on that school issue.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Jean-Claude D'Amours Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB

Ms. Thorne, if I understand correctly, you couldn't have had six schools if the program hadn't existed, but the need is even more obvious now. The minority Francophone communities, where the markets are small and the population smaller, need help, and we see that your efforts to assist the Francophones and young people in your community are impossible now that you no longer have the necessary resources to move forward.

The shame in all that is that you're forced to lease space next to a bar in order to provide the Francophone communities with the service they deserve.

This is an example of what distresses me the most. These are horror stories that we prefer not to hear, but some government members must hear them and understand them today. In actual fact, it's the Court Challenges Program that has helped you in the past, but, since it's been cut, you're forced to keep these students in an inappropriate environment in order to enable them to learn French and study in French. You don't have a choice.

9:30 a.m.

Director general, Société Saint-Thomas-d'Aquin

Lizanne Thorne

Exactly.

The government often relies on the clause that states: “where numbers warrant”. However, it's hard to determine that number without adequate facilities, and if we don't have service of equal quality to that of the English-language schools. We've seen it in all our centres: from the moment the school centre came into existence, our numbers rose incredibly.

In 2000, the Summerside elementary school had space in our offices. There were four students in grade 1. That's all. In 2006, we had a great school centre that met a lot of the community's needs. We think it's a model for all other regions. We had four students in 2000, and now we have 65 to 70. At the preschool centre day care for children 22 months to six years of age, there are more than 50 students.

This confirms the theory that, where services exist, people use them. If you limit yourself to the people who attend our schools, in inadequate rooms and facilities, it's really hard to judge clientele potential.

9:30 a.m.

Liberal

Jean-Claude D'Amours Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB

Ultimately, you're living proof that Francophones outside Quebec are looking toward the future.

9:30 a.m.

Director general, Société Saint-Thomas-d'Aquin

Lizanne Thorne

Absolutely.

9:30 a.m.

Liberal

Jean-Claude D'Amours Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB

You're living proof of that, and that's praiseworthy.

It's incredible, you went from 40 to 60 students...

9:30 a.m.

Director general, Société Saint-Thomas-d'Aquin

Lizanne Thorne

... in five years...

9:30 a.m.

Liberal

Jean-Claude D'Amours Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB

... simply because you had the resources to assert your rights in court.

9:30 a.m.

Director general, Société Saint-Thomas-d'Aquin

Lizanne Thorne

Yes.

In addition, another school, Carrefour de l'Isle-Saint-Jean in Charlottetown, was built in 1991. The building was constructed to accommodate 150 students. In the first years, there were between 50 and 75 students; now there are more than 250. They have a nice centre, but they've exceeded the school's capacity in 15 years.

9:30 a.m.

Liberal

Jean-Claude D'Amours Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB

Thank you.

Now I'm going to address a more general issue concerning early childhood. Virtually all of you have touched on the subject.

Although I know that the cuts have had an indirect impact, I'd nevertheless like to know whether, when cuts were made to the funding for the national early childhood development program, you had any hope of being able to further facilitate the children's integration. Did you hope at the time that the children would receive training in French starting in early childhood, which would have made starting school in grade 1 easier for them? Did those cuts set you back? Did you hope that that was going to facilitate matters, move them forward more, help you look even more toward the future?