Official Languages Committee on Nov. 9th, 2006

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

I'm sorry.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Yes.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

It was my mistake.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Absolutely. Go ahead.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

I made a terrible mistake and I apologize from the bottom of my heart.

Ms. Barbot.

[Vivian Barbot, Bloc, Papineau, QC]

Thank you very much for appearing before us, ladies and gentlemen.

I had an opportunity to meet with Ms. Lewin at Glendon College. That is one model for promoting the two official languages. I prefer to use the term official language rather than second language or minority language. The latter term is a bit condescending. Moreover, the minority language is always French. Many people in francophone communities that we have heard from have said that they feel this way. Basically, it is clear that the status of French in Canada is not so much the result of a lack of knowledge but rather a lack of understanding that French is intrinsicly part of Canada.

In Quebec, the Bloc Québécois favours a different solution to deal with that reality, which we have lived with and are still living with. But we are nonetheless very sensitive to what is happening elsewhere. I am particularly surprised to see that French is not the second language learned in public schools. I am very surprised in that, in Quebec, English is automatically the second language. Students sometimes do not learn to understand English well enough, but efforts are being made to correct that situation. Everyone agrees that people need to learn English as a second language. I have personally even taught English as a second language. The goal of having people learn English as well as possible is a crucial one.

I also want to talk about the need to give students and young professionals in Canada the opportunity to see what is happening in other places. Just the day before yesterday, at a press conference, people were talking about the fact that young professionals were losing the funding to go abroad. That is absolutely unacceptable. We are not in a world that is getting smaller: on the contrary. So we need to open the doors and give young people the opportunity to find out what is happening in other countries.

Globalization is also taking place here. So we must not prevent our young people from seeing other societies up close. It is not enough for them to simply say that they have met someone who is Chinese; they should go to China. My own son went to China and Japan to study. He also studied in Germany and did work in Austria. We need to make sure that our young people are able to understand the world in which we live, so that they can be the best possible ambassadors for Canada.

My comments are more general, I will admit, but I think that it is important to emphasize this point.

Mr. Théberge, you talked about your organization and the fact that it is important to strengthen relationships with the linguistic minority. I think that we really need to avoid talking about linguistic minorities and talk instead about official languages. I am a feminist, and having been the President of the Quebec Federation of Women, I know that the minority label can sometimes be useful in moving things forward. However, the Official Languages Act does not talk about minorities but rather about the rights of francophones and the rights of two peoples with respect to the relations between them. Regardless of everything that is happening in Quebec, I think that we need to promote that idea.

I would like to hear your comments on that.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

You have 1 minute and 30 seconds to respond.

[Raymond Théberge]

I simply want to make a comment on the use of the expression "minority language." I am a francophone from Manitoba. I know very well what it means to live in a minority context. I think that we should use the term "official language," but in a minority context. English dominates in some contexts, but our use of language needs to evolve as changes and circumstances dictate.

I definitely have the impression that, with time, we will begin to use much more positive expressions than "minority language."

[Monika Ferenczy]

French is also compulsory for at least four years in the other provinces. Usually, it is between grade four and grade nine. This is the case in Ontario.

As regards the expression “official language”, this is what is now used with school boards so that they can understand the value and relevance of this. We want them to understand that this language is not a second class language, but an official one. In that sense, we might say that school authorities that stop giving French training after grade nine in their regional schools are preventing their students from accessing this official language.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

Mr. Lemieux.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you for your presentations. As we said in the beginning, we are here as a team of members of Parliament from the different parties, ready to listen to you and to hear what you have to say about your successes and your challenges. Education is really important, and I am really glad that it is being discussed in detail.

We had a little exchange about the exchange program; that is important, but certainly what I have heard in our travels now through different communities is that here in Canada it's extremely important that we promote the teaching of official languages in our school systems for our children here at home. In other words, it's so important because it's more than just a language; it's also that the culture is there as well.

What I've heard from parents, what I've heard from teachers, and what I've heard from people who have presented to us is that it is extremely important to have education here at home and to offer those services in French in official minority situations.

We can talk about the cut--that's fine--but we also need to be fair. We need to take note, for example, that in 2004-05 the government spent $49 million in Ontario for official languages education--directly for that. Also, I think to be fair we need to mention that there is a new agreement in place, a four-year agreement of $1 billion. That's an arrangement between the federal government and the provinces for official languages education. I think we need to put the whole picture in context.

I was happy to see that you remarked on that in your report. I think that $1 billion program really kick-started a lot of initiatives at the provincial level right here in Ontario for you.

This is meant to help English-speaking children as well as French-speaking children.

However, I would like to find out something from the two associations present here. You would like to have more immersion, and this is good, because French is one of our official languages.

How do you respond to that, Mr. Théberge? Do you work together? Is there a network? Is there mutual support for this initiative?

[Raymond Théberge]

Yes. When we negotiated the protocol, it was a pan-Canadian initiative. It takes into consideration both the second language community and the French as a first language community. It's all part of the package. It's a multilateral agreement, and then there are bilateral agreements negotiated between the federal government and each province. It's up to the province to develop its own action plan with respect to first language instruction and second language instruction.

I would concur with your comments in that the protocol has been a tremendous boost to the teaching of official languages in Canada. I would hope that we would have a renewal of the protocol in the near future.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Very well. Thank you.

Have I any time left?

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

Yes, you still have one minute and a half.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I'd also like to know what sort of networking occurs.

This morning, we heard that there are various organizations and that in southern Ontario, there is a Franco-Ontarian population of 175,000 persons.

Regarding education, although we are in Toronto now, how are you collaborating with the various groups and associations in southern Ontario, and not only here in Toronto?

[Monika Ferenczy]

First, we attend all the conferences. I attended a symposium on the Aménagement linguistique policy in Ottawa to find out exactly how the francophone community has planned its success.

With this knowledge, we would like to produce more strategies and plans of our own for promotion. We are also in touch with other parents' organizations that are working on improving the quality of education.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

There is a network, and you are exchanging information.

[Monika Ferenczy]

Yes, there is a network of parents' and teachers' organizations at the provincial and national levels. On the national level, our national office is in charge of the linking, and we are in charge of it on the provincial level.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

All right. Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

Thank you.

As my colleague Mr. D'Amours said, Canadian Parents for French was in Ottawa, and I really, honestly, appreciate that you're here today.

One of the questions at that time that was brought to us--not a question, but a worry--was that there were not enough French immersion schools, there were not enough places. The problem we had in New Brunswick was that the parents wanted to send their kids to school, but there were no places.

If you look here at 115,770, it's pretty impressive, right? I feel it's impressive. Out of a million people, maybe it's not, but I still say that people have.... I have three daughters, and I'm so pleased that they have learned English. In some other countries they learn five and six languages, and here we fight over two. It's just unbelievable. It seems to be that our country needs something to fight about. In some countries it's religion, in some other countries it is colour, and here it is language.

What can the government do? What you have said, Ms. Ferenczy, is that money is coming in, but we don't really know where it's spent. We just heard the representative of the government, Mr. Lemieux, say that they're putting in $1 billion, but what you said is that we don't know where the money goes.

Especially because education is a provincial jurisdiction, what would you recommend to the government if they give money through Official Languages, if they give money to provinces to do a certain task? Our country has two official languages, and the reason for that is that they are the two

founding nations. Thus, we recognized that both languages spoken by these two nations would be both official languages.

Now what do you recommend we put in our report?

[Monika Ferenczy]

What we would recommend is that there be some parameters for reporting measures that are specifically data-driven so that there are statistics available to say what percentage of growth was achieved in enrollment figures for students in immersion in particular. In some school boards, there are buildings that are closed as schools, but the school boards will not open French immersion programs in those empty buildings, and parents line up at four o'clock in the morning to sign up their children for these programs. So there's a lack of access.

There is, we believe, adequate funding for French as a second language through the Government of Canada and the Province of Ontario. However, that funding is not reaching its destination, and that is where we need to collaborate to have some tighter accountability measures at the local level so that it transfers to pupil places.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

Yes, but then what I hear is that the problem is not the will of the people and Canadians; it is the will of the government to make sure you get it to them. If people line up at four o'clock in the morning, I think we should take into consideration that the will is there.

We're trying to make it seem as if people don't want to do it, but it's not true.

[Monika Ferenczy]

No, that's a perception that is not completely true for Ontario, because we know there is great public demand for French immersion and for quality programs, and we know that French immersion programs can grow in exponential numbers. However, that access is not available yet. If that access is made available, then there will be students, and there will be statistics to show the potential real growth.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

Ms. Lewin, you said earlier that you would like to have more Quebeckers come to study at your university.

Have you any reservations regarding Acadians?

[Louise Lewin]

Of course not. I knew that this question was coming, because I emphasized Quebec and not the other provinces.