Evidence of meeting #25 for Official Languages in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was students.
11:40 a.m.
President, Canadian Parents for French (Ontario)
Our greatest challenge is access to programs, at the local level, where people live and where kids go to school. For example, a school may be closed because, due to a lack of funding, it was impossible to implement an immersion program to improve French, so that students can have the opportunity to speak in French and communicate in their language during events, for example.
So, it is access to programs and the quality of these programs.
11:40 a.m.
Bloc
Vivian Barbot Bloc Papineau, QC
Thank you.
Ms. Ferenczy, in your presentation, you said there was a federal-provincial agreement to improve programs. You also said that the funds had been used primarily on basic program expenditures, particularly course materials and teacher-training materials. In my opinion, the Government of Ontario must also be contributing. So, I want to make sure I have understood correctly.
What are you doing to influence how this money is spent? This would be quite understandable.
Furthermore, I'm going to try to give an answer to Ms. Lewin. She talked about the fact that Quebec students were no longer enrolling in Glendon College. Obviously this comes down to economics; no one can deny it. It is much more expensive and much too expensive for the average student.
Also, in your academic programs, you put a great deal of emphasis on the social, economic and cultural aspects, but I haven't seen the political aspect. Yet, linguistic duality and the promotion of a second language are at the heart of the Canadian reality.
This is extremely important to Quebeckers and, by the same token, there's a preference to teach students either in French or in English. Francophones have access to English universities, which I consider quite adequate, or they can go abroad. So it appears that there is a lack of interest. My children studied abroad; this was their choice. One of them studied English in Ontario but it was just for a summer.
If I have any time left, I'd like to know how your academic programs could be more attractive to some of our students, even considering the cost factor? Have you assessed this?
11:40 a.m.
President, Canadian Parents for French (Ontario)
First, to answer your question, we need frameworks of responsibility in order to see exactly where the funds are being allocated and spent. Otherwise it is difficult for us to generate or create data bases to promote our work, because we are unable to determine the shortfalls in the system.
11:40 a.m.
Associate Principal, Glendon College - York University
With regard to our programs, I think that it's a bit difficult to know what attracts students. As such a small university, how could we create two new programs for just one group of students?
On the other hand, we have noted that the international studies program had attracted a number of students from Quebec. This seems to be a trendy program that attracts students to Glendon. So, we are trying to develop it further. It started off as a small program, and this year it became a department. So we are trying to use it to attract students.
The Quebec chair also allows us to talk about Ontario and Quebec and to open this area up to students. We are trying to attract as many students as possible during the conferences organized by the chair.
11:45 a.m.
Bloc
Vivian Barbot Bloc Papineau, QC
Since I only have a minute left, I will let someone else such as Mr. Petit speak.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Daniel Petit Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC
Thank you. First off, I thank you for being here today.
As a member of Parliament I sit on the government side, this is my first term. It is the first time in 25 years that the committee has gone out to meet with official language communities. And it is an honour to have you here. Of course, you may have noticed that this is not unlike what happens in the House of Commons: there is criticism, there are allegations. We're used to it. All right? Don't be afraid, the Liberals are sitting on that side, but they are quite pleasant, really.
Ms. Ferenczy, you said something that troubles me a bit. You used a term which I know well: accountability. We Conservatives, unlike the Liberals across the way, get excited when we hear the word, we really do.
As a government, this is what we've done. We gave one minister, namely Ms. Verner, a number of responsibilities; she is the Minister for International Cooperation as well as the Minister for the Francophonie and Official Languages. That is certainly something new. It gives her title greater significance. When you refer to accountability is it because you would like to know what part of provincial grants come from the federal government? I would like you to explain what you mean. I took some notes, but I want to be sure that is what you're referring to. My question is for Ms. Ferenczy, who raised the issue.
11:45 a.m.
President, Canadian Parents for French (Ontario)
Yes that is precisely it. It would be at the provincial, regional and even municipal levels, because school boards are linked by region.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Daniel Petit Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC
So, some of the money comes from the federal government?
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Daniel Petit Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC
But you are unable to identify that amount, is that correct?
11:45 a.m.
President, Canadian Parents for French (Ontario)
It is granted to the department, and the department get the school boards the money. That is where it becomes difficult to follow, because the funds are then put in a global budget.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Daniel Petit Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC
All right, I understand. So, in actual fact, you cannot follow the money and ensure accountability?
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Daniel Petit Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC
All right. My other question is for Mr. Théberge.
You really intrigued me, Mr. Théberge, when you referred to a series of projects in British Columbia, Alberta and in Manitoba. I am quite well aware of what is going on in Alberta, my children study there, at the Collège Saint-Jean in Edmonton. I think everyone is aware of that establishment, attended by the francophone elite in Alberta.
Mr. Théberge, you read a document earlier on. I do not know if those were personal notes. Did you submit it to the committee?
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Daniel Petit Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC
All right, then I am sorry. I would have liked a copy of it. I would like you to explain to us a little bit about the Council of Ministers of Education of Canada. Being a new MP, I know very little about you. I would like to know who you deal with and how you operate.
11:45 a.m.
Director General, Council of Ministers of Education, Canada
It is often my job to try to explain to people what we do. The Council of Ministers of Education of Canada is a corporation which was established in 1967 and brings together all Ministers of Education in Canada, from the primary, secondary and post-secondary levels. Unless I am mistaken, we currently have 19 Ministers of Education in Canada.
The CMEC manages a series of programs. It is responsible notably for administering official languages programs for the Department of Canadian Heritage, more specifically second language study grants and official language monitors programs.
We have groups that are responsible for research and statistics, we have a partnership with Statistics Canada called the Canadian Education Statistics Council. We are also responsible for primary and secondary level matters, including French teaching in minority environments. We develop tools, etc.
The role of our organization is to support the work of the Ministers of Education in Canada. Through the chair, we often hold meetings with the federal government, for instance on international activities or in the course of negotiating official language protocols. This program has been in existence here for almost 30 years.
So that is what we do. That being said, it is up to the provinces to manage their systems. It is up to them because it is a provincial area responsibility. We offer the ministers a forum, because education is a provincial area of responsibility in Canada.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
The Vice-Chair NDP Yvon Godin
If you give it away, you lose it.
Do you have recommendations for us? There is French immersion, but what about follow-up? Because the problem is that sometimes young people go to school to learn, but afterwards there is no follow-up and no practice. Yet, that is what language is all about, is it not? For instance, if you want to become a welder, you have to practice. Otherwise, you will not make it. That is how it goes, even when it comes to language.
I left home at 16 to go live in northern Ontario. When people used to say to me that the rest room is clean, I thought they meant to say that the restaurant was clean, but through practice, people learn and they understand. Where I come from, for instance, francophones learn English in school, but that is not really where they learn it, because there is no follow-up.
What would you recommend, within the Framework of the Official Languages Action Plan, when it comes to the way money given to the provinces is used and the creation of a program to ensure follow-up and to give young people a chance to practice a second language?