Official Languages Committee on June 7th, 2007

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Commissioner.

Now it's the turn of Mr. Malo, from the Bloc québécois.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Commissioner, I want to thank you and your team for being with us this morning.

Once again this year, you found that 774 complaints were admissible and you reviewed them. You tell us you travelled across Canada last year and that you visited various official language minority communities. In your opening address, you hailed the work of the committee, which also travelled virtually everywhere and met with representatives of the official language minority communities. You hailed the committee's work and various recommendations because they offer promising potential solutions.

In light of what you yourself heard and saw, in light of the complaints that were filed, are you in a position to say that the committee's recommendations can, in most cases, meet the expectations and concerns of the minority communities?

[Graham Fraser]

Unfortunately, I didn't reread your recommendations before appearing today. I read your report and I was impressed by the 39 recommendations and by the evidence you gathered across the country, somewhat confirming my observations when I made my visits. I myself met with some of the individuals who have appeared before you. Unfortunately, I am not in a position to conduct an analysis of recommendation 14 or recommendation 32. In general, I was impressed by the precision of your recommendations.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

That really follows what you yourself and the team from your office consider are the major concerns of the—

[Graham Fraser]

They are the outline.

Gérard, do you want to add anything?

[Gérard Finn, Assistant Commissioner, Policy and Communications Branch, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages]

Yes.

If we look at your recommendations, we can see that you touch on a set of issues, of areas of human activity that constitute vital issues for the communities. You talk about health, immigration and education, among other things. If I refer to last week's summit, those issues, among others, represent concerns of the communities. I think you hit the nail on the head in many cases.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

How is it, Commissioner, that Air Canada is still at the top of the list with regard to complaints?

[Graham Fraser]

There are two reasons for that. Air Canada has had certain problems integrating employees from other airlines that did not previously have the same obligations. There were agreements. As a result of union negotiations, positions were given to people who had spent their careers at other airlines. So they've had some logistical problems that have made it difficult for them to meet their obligations. However, it has to be admitted that Air Canada sometimes gives the impression that it is really reluctant to discharge its obligations. An obvious case is that of Mr. Thibodeau, who was not served in French. Not only did that case wind up in court, but Air Canada appealed from that decision. Ultimately, the Court of Appeal held that Air Canada had an obligation of result. Air Canada is in constant contact with the public. These are not only very important obligations, but the public can verify, every day, whether Air Canada can really meet its obligations. What happened in the Thibodeau case is an example of how far Air Canada is ready to go to resist the interpretation that is made of its obligations.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Commissioner. As you know, your predecessor's recommendations concerning Air Canada were adopted by this committee.

We'll now go to Mr. Godin.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As I've already made my comments, I'm going to move on to questions.

Mr. Verner said she wanted to consult all Canadians. I'm going to come back to that later. With regard to the Court Challenges Program, last Tuesday, we heard from the representatives of the organization responsible for that program, and it appears that even they were not consulted. They did not have the opportunity to respond to the government's questions and concerns. Don't you find that a bit much?

If I understand correctly—and you have material supporting that—in the matter of the inclusion of the riding of Acadie—Bathurst in that of Miramichi, the court held that voters were not consulted on that change. In this case, that's serious: these people did not even consult the persons responsible for the program.

[Graham Fraser]

Our findings are based on what we were able to learn about the decision-making process. Based on the information we were able to obtain, we concluded that the act had not been complied with. I'm not going to say what consultation should have been conducted but was not or debate what would have been the most important thing to do.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I can't wait to see the end of your report. You've just said that the act was not complied with. So you can go to court to enforce the act. That's part of your mandate.

[Graham Fraser]

We've prepared a preliminary report. Now we're waiting for the institutions and complainants to react. Some complainants have already given us their reaction. We'll consider them all before issuing our final report.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Earlier Mr. Chong talked about people from other cultures who speak other languages. First I would like to be able to solve the problem between the two founding peoples. Then we can solve the others. I don't know whether you agree with me.

[Graham Fraser]

As I told Mr. Chong and stated in my presentation, we speak 150 languages in Canada, but two of those are official languages: English and French. It is with those two languages that we maintain a national dialogue. I also pointed out that learning the other official language was a major step for those who wanted to learn other languages. Learning a third language is easier than learning a second.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Let's come back to the Air Canada situation that our colleague Mr. Nadeau addressed earlier. As regards the Official Languages Act, I really would like to know what the problem is. It's as though, from the moment it's about official languages, that doesn't count. An act is an act, it seems to me. We are legislators. I was previously a union representative, and I negotiated collective agreements as part of my duties. I was never able to negotiate one that was against the law. That's quite clear.

And yet Air Canada has been able to hide behind the fact that the union forced it to take on those employees. I won't even tell you the word that comes to my mind because it wouldn't be very pretty. The Official Languages Act is clear. The public has a right to be served in both official languages, and Air Canada is subject to the act. Not only is Air Canada against us, but when its representatives appeared in court concerning the bankruptcy, the judge said he did not want to see the Commissioner of Official Languages interfering in the case.

Isn't it enough that the act is clear? Isn't this situation alarming? Even the judges don't want to enforce the act and push away those who want to do so. You can consult that case. The judge said he wanted the Commissioner of Official Languages to stay out of it while the potential bankruptcy of Air Canada was under review. That's incredible: this language matter alone could have brought Air Canada down.

[Graham Fraser]

That's an incident that occurred before I arrived.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Yes.

[Graham Fraser]

I see that—

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Your team is in place: it must know what the story is.

[Graham Fraser]

As regards Mr. Thibodeau's case, I thought Air Canada displayed unsympathetic conduct toward its legal obligations. I was pleased to see that the court's decision was to impose an obligation of result on Air Canada.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Commissioner, I think the matter should be set aside, in that it should be resolved. I think that too many people give that company chances, whether it's the government, the court, judges or others. I didn't get up this morning and say to myself that I was going to criticize judges, but I'm talking about facts here.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Very good.

Thank you, Mr. Godin.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

You say that was very good?

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Yes.