Evidence of meeting #30 for Official Languages in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was tests.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10 a.m.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
I'm not asking you if you have the power to appoint deputy ministers. I'm simply asking if you are aware of the number of deputy ministers who do not speak any French.
10 a.m.
President, Public Service Commission of Canada
We have to rely on our tests to determine whether or not people are bilingual. I do not have the power to force deputy ministers to undergo these assessments.
10 a.m.
NDP
10 a.m.
President, Public Service Commission of Canada
How can I assess whether or not they have a given level?
10 a.m.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
I see.
Does the deputy minister work in the same offices as the public servants?
10 a.m.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
Is there a translation system in the offices of the public service?
10 a.m.
President, Public Service Commission of Canada
All departments have a system, a translation support system, that is not the same as the simultaneous interpretation provided in parliamentary committees.
10 a.m.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
The French-speaking employee isn't exactly pampered, is he? People are told that they have the right to speak in the language of their choice, but if an English-speaking deputy minister does not speak any French and there is no simultaneous translation, if the public servant wants to speak to the deputy minister, he or she must address the deputy minister in English.
10 a.m.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
I'm not the one answering, but would you say that the employee has the obligation to speak English?
10 a.m.
President, Public Service Commission of Canada
That is a very good observation.
10:05 a.m.
President, Public Service Commission of Canada
I do not know, because I am not in the offices.
10:05 a.m.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
Neither am I, but I am not stupid.
Therefore, there are unilingual English-speaking deputy ministers working within the public service. Under the Public Service Act, everyone is entitled to work in the language of his or her choice. Do I understand this correctly?
10:05 a.m.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
Take for example a meeting with a deputy minister. Would I be able to speak in the language of my choice with a deputy minister who is a unilingual anglophone? I think the answer is evident.
10:05 a.m.
President, Public Service Commission of Canada
Mr. Chairman, I think that would be a very good question to ask the clerk, who is in charge of deputy ministers, and the Prime Minister. I think that would be a very good question to ask in order to understand how they operate—
10:05 a.m.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
I understand that you're trying to do your job. You say that you have tests, that you administer the tests, that you hire people, and make sure there is an opportunity to have both official languages respected within the public service. However, there are departments where it is totally impossible to comply with the act if the senior official is unilingual. You say that the Public Service Commission has delegated staffing powers to deputy ministers who do not speak both languages. Therefore, we can assume that when the decision has been made, and once the door is closed, and people are in their cubicles, there's a big problem.
10:05 a.m.
President, Public Service Commission of Canada
I cannot tell you how many deputy ministers are unable to work in both languages. I know that within the group of deputy ministers, some are completely bilingual, others are barely bilingual, like me—
10:05 a.m.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
You are doing very well. We are not challenging your level of bilingualism.
10:05 a.m.
President, Public Service Commission of Canada
And yet, I cannot tell you with certainty if there are people who are unable to hold a meeting in the other language. In fact, meetings are held in both languages, but I know that some departments operate mainly in English.