Official Languages Committee on May 6th, 2010

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Good morning, everyone.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108, we are continuing our study on immigration as a development tool in official language minority communities. This morning, it is our pleasure to have the representatives of two departments at the 15th meeting of the Standing Committee on Official Languages.

This morning we have the pleasure of having a witness from the Department of Citizenship and Immigration, Mr. Yves Saint-Germain, director of information, language and community program policy. Welcome, Mr. Saint-Germain.

We also have with us Mr. Les Linklater, assistant deputy minister of strategic and program policy. Welcome to our committee, Mr. Linklater.

We also have representatives from the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade. Ms. Chris Greenshields is the director of the international education and youth division; as well as Mr. Jean-Philippe Tachdjian, deputy director and trade commissioner, Edu-Canada, international education promotion.

Without any delay, I would invite the members from the Department of Citizenship and Immigration to begin with their statements.

[Les Linklater, Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for this invitation to speak with you today.

My name is Les Linklater and I am the Assistant Deputy Minister for Strategic and Program Policy at Citizenship and Immigration Canada and now the department's Champion for Official Languages. I am accompanied by Yves Saint-Germain, CIC's Director of Information, Language and Community Program Policy, and my colleagues from Foreign Affairs.

I have some short opening remarks and we would then be happy to take your questions. As you know, Mr. Chairman, the Government of Canada supports measures to encourage the vitality of official language communities in Canada. This support informs all of our programs and policy.

Several times in the past year, our minister, the Honourable Jason Kenney, has noted the government's tripling of settlement funding—which includes language training—and his belief in the need to ensure that newcomers to Canada demonstrate ability in one of our official languages.

As part of the Government of Canada's 2008 Roadmap for Canada's Linguistic Duality, our department pledged to coordinate an overall investment of $30 million until 2013 to support francophone minority communities. Accordingly, CIC has reserved $10 million in settlement funding to continue and enhance activities already in place under the Strategic Plan to Foster Immigration to Francophone Minority Communities.

This includes implementing community networks for immigration and improving the delivery of settlement services to French-speaking immigrants and refugees. In addition, the Government of Canada, through the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency (ACOA), allocated an additional $10 million to assist the Government of New Brunswick in preserving that province's linguistic profile in recruiting francophone immigrants.

As immigration is a major factor in how we build this country, CIC is committed to supporting francophone minority communities through immigration.

Our approach is to ensure that francophone immigrants obtain the services they need to integrate in French into Canadian society and the labour market. These services can include information and orientation, needs assessment, language training, employment support, and other community programs.

I would like to address these goals of the department and the action we are taking to support francophone communities outside Quebec.

As you know, Mr. Chair, the work we do in this area requires working with many partners. That is why in 2002 the department created the CIC francophone minority communities steering committee. This committee brings together representatives from federal departments and agencies, provinces and territories, and representatives of official language minority communities to foster immigration to francophone minority communities and to help these communities benefit from immigration. The committee's next meeting is on May 10; this will be a chance to take stock of the progress accomplished and to reflect on the priorities for the year.

The relationship between CIC and the francophone community goes beyond the formal structure. We regularly meet with Marc Arnal, the community representative with whom I co-chair the steering committee. CIC employees also collaborate with other community representatives on a regular basis, including the comité de mise en oeuvre, which is also co-chaired by CIC and community representatives.

Mr. Chair, as you may know, in September 2006 the committee launched the strategic plan to foster immigration to francophone minority communities. The key goal of this plan was to increase the number of French-speaking immigrants settling outside Quebec to 4.4% by 2023 to match the percentage of Canadians outside Quebec whose mother tongue is French, based on the 2001 census. An intermediate target of 1.8% by 2013 has been identified.

This timeline reflects the challenges in recruiting French-speaking immigrants to settle outside Quebec. Given these challenges, part of my role at CIC as champion of official languages is to identify specific initiatives to create tangible results for French-speaking immigrants and the francophone minority communities where they settle. These initiatives include promotion and recruitment, settlement, retention, and long-term integration.

I would like to take a moment to outline some of these initiatives in more detail.

CIC has intensified promotional programs to encourage potential immigrants and students to come to francophone minority communities in Canada and to inform them of the services that are available. An example of this of which we are quite proud is Destination Canada, our major promotional event, which is held every year. Last year it was held in November with our missions in Paris and Brussels and attracted over 2,220 people.

It also included the participation of six other CIC missions, employers, representatives of provinces and territories, and our community partners. Also taking part were the Réseau de développement économique et d'employabilité—RDÉE—Canada, regional RDÉEs, and la Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne—la FCFA.

I should note, Mr. Chairman, in discussing immigration levels with provinces and territories, the department also promotes the flexibility provided by the different immigration classes, including the Provincial Nominees Program, in order to maximize the opportunities to foster francophone immigration to minority communities.

Secondly, CIC is undertaking several projects to address French-speaking newcomers' integration into Canadian society and our economy. Here are a few examples. First, there's the creation and strengthening of community networks from coast to coast; second, a pilot project with RDEE Canada in three cities—Vancouver, Calgary and Toronto—to promote and recruit francophone immigrants as well as create a job bank that matches them with employers in francophone minority communities in those cities; third, an enhanced language training program to help improve work place and professional language skills of immigrants in London, Ottawa and Windsor; fourth, a professional mentoring program from francophone newcomers in Toronto; and, fifth, awareness sessions for employers in Regina and Saskatoon to promote francophone newcomers in those centres.

In addition, there will be job fairs in Toronto, Ottawa and Sudbury in the near future. There will also be work placement programs for French-speaking newcomers in Saskatchewan and Nova Scotia. Lastly, there was the launch of a Best Practices Manual on Francophone Immigration in Canada at the most recent Metropolis conference in Montreal.

The department is also working to build the capacity of French-speaking communities to welcome and retain newcomers. An example of this was Minister Kenney's announcement last September of support for l'Accueil francophone, from Winnipeg's St. Boniface area, who appeared before you on Tuesday.

CIC has also modified its data collection system to better reflect the number of francophone immigrants coming to Canada, according to the definition of a French-speaking immigrant put forward by the strategic plan. As such, all application forms for temporary and permanent residence have now been modified to ask applicants which of Canada's official languages they use most frequently. This information will be captured systematically and electronically as our new global case management system is implemented over the coming year.

Finally, we are stressing the importance of Canada's linguistic duality in our flagship publications. On the citizenship and multiculturalism fronts, the Discover Canada guide recognizes the contribution of both French and English to the definition of Canada's day-to-day reality. We are also doing this in the Welcome to Canada publication and the “Going to Canada” web portal. These also highlight the government's responsibility to provide services in both official languages.

Mr. Chairman, I should note that our department also supports activities targeted to English-speaking minority communities in Quebec. This includes citizenship ceremonies organized in English in Quebec, research projects and other multicultural initiatives to build bridges between all communities in the province. The programs respect the Canada-Quebec Accord, under which Quebec has sole responsibility for selection of immigrants destined to Quebec as well as for reception and integration of permanent residents in Quebec.

In other jurisdictions, we are continuing to ensure that our FPT agreements reflect our commitment to strengthen the vitality of official language minority communities.

In closing, Mr. Chairman, I wish to note that CIC remains committed to complying with the Official Languages Act in our programs, in order to recognize Canada's linguistic duality as one of the foundations of our society. While we are accomplishing many of its objectives in supporting francophone minority communities across Canada, we must admit the challenge francophone newcomers can face to settle in these communities and the challenge government can face in supporting these newcomers.

CIC will continue to work to develop an overall picture of everything being done to support Francophone immigration and to identify the gaps, needs and the limitations to achieving them. But the Government of Canada cannot do this alone. We must continue to work with community organizations, employers and of course, other governments, to support and promote francophone communities across Canada.

Thank you again for your invitation to speak with you today. I’ll now hand over to my colleagues from Foreign Affairs before answering your questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much, Mr. Linklater.

I'll now invite the people from Foreign Affairs to make their opening remarks.

[Chris Greenshields, Director, International Education and Youth Division, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade]

Mr. Chairman, thank you for this opportunity to speak to the committee. My name is Chris Greenshields. I am the director for international education and youth at the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade.

I am joined by my colleague, Jean-Philippe Tachdjian, who is the deputy director for education marketing, leading our Edu-Canada unit.

I will make a brief overview of our work in regard to education marketing and official language communities, and then Mr. Tachdjian and I would be pleased to respond to your questions and comments.

Let me also add that we work very closely with CIC in all our work, and we are also participating in the steering committee.

In 2006, DFAIT created a unit called Edu-Canada to coordinate the work of Canadian missions in the promotion of Canadian education abroad; to create a promotional campaign and the development of a new brand, now known as “Education au/in Canada”; to facilitate relations between provinces and non-governmental organizations and our missions abroad; and to develop a strategy to support student recruitment in priority countries.

The Edu-Canada initiative was included in the global commerce strategy and is closely aligned with other DFAIT programs—for example, scholarships and Canadian studies. The federal budget in 2007-08 provided $1 million each year through 2011-12 for this initiative.

Following consultations with the provinces and stakeholders in international education, the department identified nine countries and four priority regions for targeted marketing activities where 75% of the total budget is allocated to missions, that is to say our overseas embassies. The remaining resources are allocated to other markets. Our priority markets are China, India, the United States, Korea, Japan, Mexico, Germany, France and Brazil, the Persian Gulf—including Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Kuwait—North Africa—including Morocco, Tunisia, Egypt, and Libya—the Caribbean and the countries of South East Asia. France, Morocco, Tunisia and Egypt are priority markets of interest for francophone institutions in minority language communities. Other markets of interest for francophone institutions in minority language communities where we support marketing and promotion initiatives are Switzerland, Lebanon, Senegal, Mali, Ivory Coast and Cameroon.

A recent report commissioned by the department found that international students contribute $6.5 million annually to the Canadian economy. The study also demonstrated that international students generate $291 million in government revenue, as well as economic activity that generates employment for 83,000 Canadians.

International students constitute a desirable source of potential immigrants, and the CIC has developed programs aimed at retaining these students as permanent residents after graduation, such as the post-graduate work program and the new Canadian experience class.

The OECD estimates that the number of international students in the world will increase from 2 million in 1994 to 7.2 million in 2025, with the majority coming from Asia. Growth in the middle class in many developing countries is also a factor in the increasing number of international students.

DFAIT works with provincial governments and other federal departments through the Federal-Provincial Consultative Committee on Education-Related International Affairs regarding governance and development of the Imagine Education au/in Canada brand. The committee was created by an agreement between DFAIT and the Council of Ministers of Education and meets at least twice annually. Collaborative efforts also include the establishment of a calendar of signature events for education promotion and partnership.

The department also regularly consults with regional and national associations involved in international education, notably the Association des universités francophones du Canada and the Réseau des cégeps et des collèges francophones du Canada, with the goal of creating awareness and making our services and activities available to meet their needs and interests. Representing 13 universities outside of Quebec, AUFC's mandate is to promote opportunities for studying in French throughout Canada's minority language communities. The Réseau des cégeps et des collèges francophones du Canada is a network aiming to develop college training in Canada through cooperation, promotion, and exchanges. The Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade also regularly consults with the Association of Universities and Colleges of Canada and the Association of Canadian Community Colleges.

Twice annually the department organizes the national education marketing round table on the subject of education promotion. At this round table, the department presents reports on its activities in education marketing and offers participants the opportunity to present reports and to discuss issues of collective interest in the education marketing sector.

In 2009-2010, more than 35 Canadian missions organized education marketing events. Many of these events are fairs which offer substantial or moderate opportunities for education institutions located within francophone minority communities. In many countries, the immigration sections of the missions equally contribute to the event's success by providing information on procedures to obtain visas and study permits.

In the Maghreb, for example, some promotional activities have great potential to attract students to institutions located in minority francophone communities, including Study in Canada fairs organized by Canadian missions in Tunisia and Morocco. These fairs lasted two or three days and attracted 1,500 and 2,500 visitors. In francophone Africa, in January 2010, Canadian missions in Senegal, Mali, Cameroon and Ivory Coast also held Study in Canada Recruitment fairs, attracting between 1,000 and 2,000 visitors each. In October 2010, there will be Study in Canada fairs in Morocco, Tunisia, Egypt and Lebanon as part of a greater tour of the Middle East and North Africa. In February 2011, there will also be a Study in Canada tour in Senegal, Mali, Cameroon and the Ivory Coast.

In France, a full-time employee at the embassy in Paris dedicated to academic relations provides advice and support to education institutions interested in recruiting French students and establishing inter-institutional agreements with French institutions. The Association des universités de la francophonie canadienne worked in close collaboration with the Canadian mission in France delivering promotional activities in January 2010. The Canadian Cultural Centre also offers bimonthly information sessions on studying in Canada. In October 2010, the Canadian mission in France will be organizing a Canadian Pavilion at an international student recruitment fair in which Canada will be the country of honour. As for Switzerland, the Canadian mission in Zurich organized a booth at three fairs aimed at the recruitment of students.

It is worth noting that primarily English-speaking markets also offer important opportunities for Francophone institutions including Mexico, Brazil and China. For example, China offers a certain potential for Francophone institutions and the missions in China organize Canadian Pavilions at international recruitment fairs as well as information workshops on recruiting doctoral students.

In 2010-2011, promotional activities will also take place in Mexico, Brazil, Vietnam, Spain, the Netherlands, Germany, Norway, Turkey and the Czech Republic, countries where there is modest but real demand for study in French-language programs in Canada.

I'll skip over the list of institutions we are working with, the minority francophone institutions in a minority situation.

I would like to wrap up by noting that in terms of our other signature events each year, the Department of Foreign Affairs organizes a Canadian pavilion at the European Association for International Education, which will take place in Nantes this September 2010.

The European Association for International Education attracts post-secondary representatives with an interest in developing institutional partnerships of exchange or collaboration. On the margins of the next conference in Nantes, the department plans to organize a Canada-France round table on the mobility of international students, which will bring together institutions from both countries.

We are also planning to organize a familiarization tour on education in Canada for French journalists who will visit educational institutions in key provinces and particularly those located in minority francophone communities.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much, Mr. Greenshields.

We'll begin our first round with Mr. Bélanger.

Go ahead, please.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you for being here this morning, gentlemen.

There's a lot of information and documentation. Five minutes isn't enough to digest it all.

Consequently, will you allow my colleagues and me to call and meet with you individually to explore the information you've given us this morning in greater detail?

[Les Linklater]

Thank you for your question. Mr. Kenney's office is responsible for coordinating activities with MPs and for organizing those kinds of meetings.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

So you can't speak to me directly. We have to go through the minister's office.

[Les Linklater]

I believe the minister has to be aware of the conversations of his—

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Is it because you don't trust me?

[Les Linklater]

We always trust MPs, Mr. Bélanger, but the department has to coordinate important issues—

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I'm not asking anyone to reveal secrets. I'm only asking to talk about the information you've given us, that you'll be making available, in order to understand it better. You're telling me I have to do that in the minister's office!

[Les Linklater]

I'm not saying you have to be in the minister's office, but the request has to be made to the minister's office.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

If people from the public called you, would you speak to them directly or would they have to call the minister's office?

[Les Linklater]

We use our “formats”, for example, the steering committee that I co-chair—

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

No, if a Canadian citizen called you to get public information, which is available under the Access to Information Act, could that citizen obtain that information?

[Les Linklater]

We can respond to requests, but to organize meetings, we always have to inform the minister's office—

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

If I called you as a citizen, not as a member of Parliament, would that work?

[Les Linklater]

I would say that, in response to that kind of request, I would coordinate my answers with—

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Pardon me, but we've just opened a door. If I call you and you inform the minister that I'm requesting information, that's your instruction; that doesn't bother me. However, are you telling me that I have to go through the minister's office in order to speak to you?

[Les Linklater]

If the idea is to organize a meeting, that's correct.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Well then, we'll come back to that.

Mr. Chairman, I'd like to thank our researchers who have prepared a series of excellent questions. I therefore put questions 6 to 11 to the representatives from the Department of Citizenship and Immigration. I can send them to you like that; I won't need to read them to you. I think it would be interesting to get the answers to those questions for our study and our report. I'd like to submit questions 6 to 11, which are on page 5 of the document that was distributed to us to Mr. Linklater so we can get the answers.

I'm going to ask you two questions, starting with the fifth: what are your performance indicators for the Strategic Plan?

[Les Linklater]

We have a number of performance indicators for the Strategic Plan. We go through the steering committee to ensure that we have close communication. With regard to priorities, I'm going to ask Mr. Saint-Germain for more details. Through that committee, we ensure that our activities are directly related to priorities.

[Yves Saint-Germain, Director, Information, Language and Community Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

With regard to the Strategic Plan, the various indicators concern the calculation of a number of French-speaking immigrants who arrive in Canada every year. This is a key indicator because it's the basis of our—

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I'm going to stop you, Mr. Saint-Germain. Are your performance indicators quantified and established? Do they exist?

[Yves Saint-Germain]

The figure of 4.4%, which is our indicator—

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

For 2023... It will be a little late at that point; we may not even be alive.

[Yves Saint-Germain]

We have 1.8% by 2013.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Yes, I know. Are those your performance indicators? Are they the only ones?

[Yves Saint-Germain]

It's one: it concerns recruitment.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Are there others?

[Yves Saint-Germain]

There are some concerning the establishment of community networks.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Would you be prepared to share the performance indicators, or are they included in the plan?

[Yves Saint-Germain]

They aren't included in the plan because it was done in 2006.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Could you provide us with the performance indicators?

[Yves Saint-Germain]

Yes.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you.

My next question is question 2. In 2003, the Standing Committee on Official Languages suggested that the Minister of Immigration consult the anglophone communities to see about establishing a committee equivalent to the Citizenship and Immigration Canada - Francophone Minority Communities Steering Committee. Has that consultation taken place?

[Yves Saint-Germain]

As regards Quebec anglophones, we are currently doing the research to establish needs.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

You know they would like a committee. Have you consulted them on the subject?

[Les Linklater]

Not to our knowledge, no, but I can get back to you on that point.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Bélanger.

Mr. Nadeau, go ahead, please.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

In light of Mr. Bélanger's comments, if I understand correctly, the lid is being put on the pot and we have to go through all kinds of schemes to obtain information from our own government. I don't blame you because I know the orders come from above. That's perhaps more an aspect of the government in place than anything else.

However, there are 54 persons sitting on the Citizenship and Immigration Canada - Francophone Minority Communities Steering Committee. That committee is to meet on May 10. I'm looking at the list of people who attended the previous meeting or the one that will be held this week—I recognize some names and not others, but that's life.

Have there previously been any meetings of this committee—do you meet annually? Do you have reports on those meetings showing that things have been accomplished from one year to the next? Could we get those reports?

[Les Linklater]

Yes, of course.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Mr. Chairman, I request the reports from all the meetings that have been held, since this committee is relatively recent in the history of humanity.

I would therefore like to get the annual reports in order to determine what the direction was following your discussions with a number of federal government representatives and a few from the community component and the provinces in order to move the file forward.

In addition, there's also the entire recruitment issue. There are 208 countries in the world, but I know there aren't necessarily 208 Canadian embassies. Some embassies serve two or three countries. I've previously gone to Laos through Thailand. To my great stupefaction, the Canadian ambassador there doesn't speak French. I must say I went there especially for the Francophonie. How do you operate?

I'm going to make another side remark. At my constituency office, one-third of citizens files concern immigration. I'm a member for the constituency of Gatineau, for your information. Some embassies don't offer us service in French. We can make every possible effort; we aren't about to make the citizens of my constituency, or at least of my region, wait for answers. Some embassies don't offer services in French. I repeat: some embassies don't offer service in French. This is a showcase for the Canadian Francophonie!

How do you get along with those embassies in the francophone countries, for example the ones serving Laos, Thailand and Burma, to send the message that they have to provide information in French to people who want to immigrate? How do you operate with those embassies that don't offer service in French?

[Chris Greenshields]

With regard to the student recruitment or for general services to Canada citizens?

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

No, for citizens.

[Chris Greenshields]

To my knowledge, all the embassies operate in both official languages.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Mr. Greenshields, welcome to Canada: that isn't the case. All right! I simply want you to know that.

Furthermore, I look at the Destination Canada job forum of Canada's embassy in France. It makes me think of Canadian Heritage. When a citizen, an organization or people want services in French from these kinds of departments, other than Canadian Heritage, under section 4 of the Official Languages Act, what do they do? They direct them to Canadian Heritage, whereas the entire Government of Canada should be offering services in French.

Are you telling me that someone who lives in Latin America or South East Asia has to go to the Destination Canada offered by the Canadian embassy in France because there are no other embassies offering the same thing as the embassy in France in French?

[Les Linklater]

Destination Canada is a project that we implemented to conduct targeted recruitment in Europe and North Africa. The idea is to attract, to target francophone immigrants who want to come to Canada.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Yes, but the nest is at the embassy in France, which is solely responsible for the project, from what I read in the documents.

Is that correct, Mr. Saint-Germain? Why didn't you establish the program at all embassies?

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much, Mr. Nadeau.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

You target French-speaking people in Europe and Africa who would like to come and settle in Canada, but why don't you do it at all the embassies? I'd like you to answer me later.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Nadeau. You'll have the opportunity to come back to this.

Mr. Gravelle.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

Good morning, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Godin left me a list of questions to ask because I wasn't here last week.

At the last meeting, on Tuesday, the communities talked about the importance of pre-departure orientation and preparation sessions in immigrants' countries of origin. The goal is to facilitate their economic integration once they are in Canada. The FCFA emphasized that these kinds of sessions were offered in China, the Philippines and India—and soon in London—to immigrants coming to settle in Canada. However, there aren't any in the francophone countries, except at the Canadian embassy in Paris, which is responsible for those sessions at Canadian embassies abroad.

Why is that the case? Don't you agree that this is very important and that we should start offering these sessions in francophone countries?

[Les Linklater]

Thank you.

Mr. Chairman, I'm first going to provide you with an overview of the Foreign Credentials Referral Office.

The office was established through Advantage Canada. It is located in the offices of Citizenship and Immigration Canada. We always develop programs and policies designed to support people who want to start a settlement process before leaving their country of origin. We started with a pilot project together with Human Resources and Skills Development Canada, involving foreign partners and targeted at certain missions, as you mentioned. This is a roll-out process, if I may use the term, which works in stages.

As funding becomes available, we improve our services. We started with China, the Philippines and India because the missions in New Delhi, Beijing and Manilla are the busiest ones. That's where the volumes are the highest. In the coming months, a fourth office will open in London to cover the United Kingdom, Scandinavia and the Gulf countries. We will then have to start planning the next stages for the establishment of other offices.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

We spoke with the people from the communities and the people who welcomed immigrants in the field. For immigrants, employability is a crucial factor concerning the place where they choose to settle. Credential recognition is therefore very important. The FCFA emphasized the major deficiency in this area. It emphasized the lack of interdepartmental and intergovernmental cooperation. It said that Human Resources and Skills Development Canada and the economic departments of the provinces and territories clearly had a role to play in this regard, as did Citizenship and Immigration Canada, with regard to coordination.

What efforts are currently being made regarding the recognition of immigrants' credentials? What is the process?

[Les Linklater]

Thank you for the question. A number of actions are currently being taken to improve the process of recognizing immigrants' credentials. Human Resources and Skills Development Canada is working very closely with the Foreign Credentials Referral Office and with Health Canada at the federal level to coordinate efforts with the provinces and territories.

I should mention that, after a lot of work between the provinces and territories and the federal government, the premiers announced the Pan-Canadian Framework for the Assessment and Recognition of Foreign Qualifications in the fall of 2009. Following extensive work, the governments identified 10 occupations that should constitute a path to recognition determined by all governments and regulatory groups responsible in the provinces and territories by December.

There will consequently be another round until 2012 concerning another 10 occupations. We've determined key occupations based on the volume of immigrants already settled here who possess certain credentials or training, in order to determine what occupations persons interested in coming to Canada carry on. Of all occupations, we have identified 10 for the first round and another 10 for the next round.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Gravelle.

We'll continue with Ms. Glover.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome to all our witnesses. It's nice to see you here again.

I am going to just take a moment to help jog my colleague's memory. Monsieur Bélanger asked some questions that I'm a little surprised he doesn't know the answers to already.

In 2003 there was a study done here in this committee, and Monsieur Bélanger was the chair at the time. The study was called “Immigration as a Tool for the Development of Official Language Minority Communities”. He refers to a recommendation, number 14, with regard to the QCGN or the anglophone minority community in Quebec wanting a committee. I'll read the recommendation that was made under that report that Monsieur Bélanger referred to:

The Committee recommends that CIC, within the framework of the Canada-Quebec Agreement currently in effect, consult the representative bodies of Quebec's anglophone community to determine whether they should be interested in setting up a steering committee similar to that for the francophone minority communities.

The response of the Liberal government of the time, in October 2008, was:

Under the Canada-Quebec Agreement, Quebec has rights and responsibilities with respect to the number of immigrants destined to Quebec and the selection, reception and integration of those immigrants. Quebec administers programs related to immigrant selection and integration, and is therefore responsible for consulting its population.

So Mr. Bélanger should know the response: the government in power at the time, the Liberal government, referred this recommendation to the Government of Quebec. In addition, QCGN tells us that it has approached the Government of Quebec and this is working very well. It isn't true that QCGN or the anglophone community in Quebec want an equivalent committee because they were just consulted this week and asked how things were going. They said they were going very well.

I don't know why this question comes up again. It's clear.

I have a question concerning what we heard two days ago. The Société franco-manitobaine was here, and Mr. Diallo said:

[...] if we look at what is going on at the Collège universitaire de Saint-Boniface alone, we see that approximately 20% of the students were born outside Canada—I think that's the highest percentage in Canada. Thirty per cent of students come from immersion schools, which is a lot. Lastly, the Collège universitaire is a microcosm of what could be happening on the outside. So the face of this francophone community we were talking about is changing as well, through education.

Can you tell us, in figures, what these foreign students represent for the economy and the vitality of the francophone minority communities?

[Jean-Philippe Tachdjian, Deputy Director and Trade Commissioner, Edu-Canada, International Education Promotion, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade]

Thank you for the question. It's a bit difficult to answer without knowing the exact number of foreign or international students enrolled at the Collège universitaire de Saint-Boniface. You're talking about 20%, but of what?

One study that we recently conducted indicates that every foreign student registered at a university or community college in Canada contributes an average of $30,860 to the Canadian economy. So if we have thousands of them, that can definitely be very good in terms of economic impact for the communities, and more for the institutions in small urban centres. In Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver, this will of course have a smaller impact, whereas it can have a much bigger impact in a small community.

We know that Manitoba is very active in this field in general. We're working in close cooperation with the Government of Manitoba and with Manitoba's International Education Branch. In addition, with Manitoba, we're also organizing a tour of Brazil for the fall. A few months ago, we visited Thailand and Vietnam, where we funded a portion of the promotional work. We paid the travelling expenses of a Thai journalist, who came to Manitoba. The province handled the rest.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

I'd like to make a correction to the Liberal government's response to the committee's recommendation. In fact, it was given in October 2003, not October 2008.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

We have noted that, Ms. Glover.

Thank you very much.

We'll begin our second round with Mr. D'Amours.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

We have to believe that the answer is valid for the following years.

First, I'm going to speak to the representatives of the Department of Foreign Affairs. My question will be simple.

Mr. Greenshields, would it be possible to meet with you to discuss what you mentioned at the start of your presentation in a little greater detail? May I telephone you so that we can discuss it, so I can have some clarification, in order to better understand what you're trying to say?

[Chris Greenshields]

Yes.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

So there's no problem trying to reach you directly.

[Chris Greenshields]

We receive requests for information from time to time, normally through our branch responsible for parliamentary relations. We also have opportunities to meet with MPs to discuss our programs.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Does this kind of meeting have to be conducted in the presence of a representative of the minister's office?

[Chris Greenshields]

We respond to our clients, but parliamentarians aren't clients. However, from time to time, we explain our programs to parliamentarians—

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Mr. Greenshields, if I understand correctly, you haven't received any instructions from the minister's office of the kind that may have been given by the minister responsible for immigration.

[Chris Greenshields]

I haven't received any instructions on how to offer our services to the public, no.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Mr. Linklater, coming back to what you said at the start of your presentation, would it be because you received an instruction from the minister's office that you can't speak to us directly, without us making a request to the minister's office?

[Les Linklater]

No. I would like to clarify my earlier remarks.

As is the case with Foreign Affairs, when requests come from parliamentarians through our parliamentary affairs bureau, the minister's office is made aware of those requests, and as a result, officials are then asked to respond through parliamentary affairs. If a meeting is requested by a parliamentarian to follow up on a specific issue, yes, we will normally meet with the parliamentarian to respond to their request.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

So I don't have to go through the minister's office to talk to you.

[Les Linklater]

No, it would be through parliamentary affairs. My apologies for the oversight.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

I'm going to move on to my questions.

Mr. Linklater, you talked about a lot of projects in urban areas. You mentioned the ACOA project in New Brunswick. Apart from all the projects in Canada's major cities that you mentioned, how is your department involved with the rural communities in attracting francophone immigrants to the country's rural communities? People have told us that immigrants initially didn't even go into the rural communities around the major cities, but that they went directly to the major cities. You mentioned projects linked to the major cities and very few to the rural communities. One would say your actions run contrary to needs. There are needs in the rural communities, since francophone immigrants are already in the urban areas and you're focusing almost all your efforts on the urban communities. I'd like to understand. They say that immigrants should also go to other regions, but one would say you all target the same place.

[Yves Saint-Germain]

It's important to understand that the purpose of the settlement program is to enable the communities to become welcoming. In rural areas, it's important for the communities to be able to attract these immigrants. We know that 60% to 70% of immigrants wind up in Montreal, Toronto or Vancouver. At the department, we're developing tools to promote and receive immigrants in rural areas. We've developed a tool kit enabling the communities and small municipalities to know how to do their marketing.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Mr. Saint-Germain, have you distributed it to those communities, in towns back home? Have they received the kit in my constituency in northern New Brunswick or do we have to guess that it exists and call 1-800 O-Canada to find out what is being done for these small communities?

[Yves Saint-Germain]

The kit exists, they're discussing it in various research forums, at the Metropolis conference. All those working in immigration and immigrant integration are usually quite familiar with the kit.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

What do the small rural communities that don't have it do to find out that it exists?

[Les Linklater]

We're working with the provincial governments as well, and New Brunswick sits on our steering committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. D'Amours.

We'll continue with Mr. Nadeau.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Greenshields, a little earlier I talked to you about French-language services. You can check in Uganda; it would be worthwhile to do a little visit there and to make a phone call in French to see what they think of it. A certain Sheila Fraser, who is the Auditor General of Canada, told us, in June 2009—which isn't that long ago—that some embassies don't speak a word of French. We've dealt with Kampala, in Uganda, and I can attest to that. Others have a lot of difficulty, in London and Bogota, in particular. We dealt more with Colombia at one point. You get an idea of the problem. It's a monumental farce! We bring 54 people together to welcome and invite francophone or people who speak French to come to Canada, whereas Canada's embassies abroad are places where we disregard the French fact.

I went to Egypt last summer. I swear it was difficult to get services in French, particularly since I was negotiating to enter Gaza. You see, and I'm a member of Parliament! We ultimately obtained some, but it wasn't easy. This is something that I think is fundamental. Studies have been done; the Commissioner of Official Languages has said some things on the subject. You should go and see what French Imperative has done with regard to the embassies. We're talking, in particular, about foreign embassies. You'll tell me that isn't your responsibility, but I'm nevertheless talking about it because you're not setting an example overseas. On some websites of foreign embassies in Canada, there's only information in English and in the language of their country; French is absent. This projects a certain image of Canada's duality. It's a duality that disregards French. I find it absolutely appalling.

We're going to talk about another subject. Earlier you were talking about education—

[Jean-Philippe Tachdjian]

May I respond?

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Go ahead.

[Jean-Philippe Tachdjian]

I handle education and recruitment of foreign students. Without spending too much time on details about consular services, which is not my responsibility, I can nevertheless tell you that all our documents on promotion and student recruitment are available in both languages.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

I'll stop you here, sir. I only have five minutes.

This happens at the level of the citizen, and I want you to understand that. The criticisms don't just come from me, but from Sheila Fraser as well. You can discuss this question or the risks I mentioned earlier with Mr. Greenshields. You'll see for yourself, since you have the tools to do so.

As regards education, are you talking about the primary, secondary and university levels or just about the post-secondary level?

[Jean-Philippe Tachdjian]

We promote education at all levels, in particular primary and secondary. It's mainly secondary, but that depends on the market. In some markets, there's no point in promoting secondary education, and we don't do any for the primary level. With regard to secondary education, it's very important to do promotion in certain markets. In other markets—

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

All right. I'll stop you there.

The recognition of credentials, diplomas, is a provincial jurisdiction and concerns the universities in particular. Do you do any work in that area? This is a complaint that doesn't just come from me, but also from other people who are here. We often talk about the taxi driver who's a doctor by training and holds a doctorate recognized in his country, whether it be France of elsewhere, but not here. Where do we stand on that situation?

[Chris Greenshields]

Let's take the example of Europe and the Bologna Process, which is a comprehensive approach to developing or redeveloping diplomas and the education system. We're working with Canadian organizations so that they study the Bologna Process and how it can be adapted to our system. In the context of the Bologna Process, a three-year Bachelor's degree will be developed in Europe. It will be a change for Canadian institutions because we normally require a four-year undergraduate degree in order to register for a master's degree. This involves dialogue between institutions. Of course, as you know, this is a provincial jurisdiction.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

All right.

I'd nevertheless like you to send us the document because citizens are asking me for an answer today. From what I understand, there are negotiations. Could you send us a report on the Bologna negotiations so that we can have an idea of the situation and can say that things are being done? It's not moving forward quickly, but at least things are being done.

[Chris Greenshields]

Absolutely.

However, these aren't negotiations. The idea is to determine how we can be in a position to react to this change. Of course there are certain reports on the subject, and we can send them to the committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Nadeau.

We'll now go to Ms. Boucher.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Good morning, everyone.

This is very interesting. A number of questions come to mind.

We've heard a lot about EduCanada. We've discussed the means governments could use to increase promotion of the French fact in Canada. We talked about that with the FCFA people last week. The Destination Canada program concerns the recruitment of francophone immigrants. On Tuesday, Ms. Bossé from the FCFA told us that there was no francophone office assigned to preparing immigrants for departure and arrival in Canada, except at the Canadian embassy in Paris. There isn't any for the francophone countries. I think that would be a good starting point. The Department of Foreign Affairs could definitely be more active. Some Canadian embassies took part in the last round of Destination Canada. We now hope that will produce results. We're working very closely with the Canadian embassy in Paris. Destination Canada is a good practice. However, we have to move it forward.

Could you describe that program's operation and impact? Can you give us some details on what the Paris embassy is doing and tell us what other Canadian embassies are doing—or what is planned—in order to reproduce that practice at other Canadian embassies overseas?

[Yves Saint-Germain]

With regard to the promotion and recruitment activities that take place in francophone countries, it is true that our mission in Paris has a key role in coordinating all efforts. However, our efforts aren't focused solely on Paris and Brussels. They're coordinated from Paris and Brussels by our chef de mission in Paris. The work we are doing on promotion and recruitment extends to our offices in Abidjan, Bucharest, Damascus, Cairo and Rabat. All those offices play a role in that they establish promotion and recruitment activities and information sessions for students and workers. Various activities take place during the year.

The high point is the Destination Canada mission, which takes place in Paris and Brussels in November. Coordination is done with those offices. The work therefore concerns Romania, Bulgaria, Moldavia, Ivory Coast, Mali and Senegal as well as Cameroon. Together we reach the francophone countries through our promotion and recruitment activities.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Does anyone want to add anything?

[Les Linklater]

I would say that not only is Destination Canada a best practice, it is also natural for us to focus our efforts on that mission, as Mr. Saint-Germain mentioned, in view of the fact that our office responsible for the Maghreb and the francophone countries of western Europe is in Paris. In that way, we will be able to effectively coordinate all our promotion efforts in that francophone area.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

That's good.

I have a number of questions. I'm originally from the Quebec City area. The Université Laval is located there and has a lot of foreign students.

What percentage of foreign students stay in minority communities after completing their education, or simply stay here? How can they become permanent residents? Do you have any agreements with the various provinces and territories to try to achieve some retention in those communities?

[Yves Saint-Germain]

New Brunswick is doing a very good job of retaining students in francophone minority communities. The Université de Moncton has introduced a program designed specifically to try to retain students.

As you know, we have a program entitled the Canadian Experience Class. The purpose of that program is to enable foreign students to qualify for permanent residence from the time they have acquired a total of one year's work experience in Canada or after their studies.

This programs seems to be working well at the Université de Moncton, but other universities are taking part in it as well.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Are there any agreements with the various provinces? We know that every province is different. In Quebec, we have an immigration agreement. Do you have any agreements or a collaborative relationship with the various provinces in order to establish initiatives designed to retain immigrants?

[Les Linklater]

As you know, we have agreements with the provinces to promote the Provincial Nominee Program, under which the provinces can establish their own immigration priorities.

I imagine you have heard or will hear from Manitoban representatives about Manitoba's nominee program. The purpose of that program is to attract 7% of francophone immigrants.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Ms. Boucher.

We'll complete our second round with Mr. Gravelle.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The Citizenship and Immigration Canada—Francophone Minority Communities Steering Committee is proposing a new definition of what a francophone immigrant is:

A French-speaking immigrant is an immigrant whose mother tongue is French, or whose first official language is French if the mother tongue is a language other than French or English.

Last week, we spoke with witnesses about the importance of the terms used to identify francophones. In view of this definition, what do you do about individuals who use both official languages equally, those who have a francophone and an anglophone parent? How do you classify them?

[Yves Saint-Germain]

With regard to the definition of a francophone immigrant, research in recent years has shown the steering committee that francophone immigrants most likely to integrate and stay in francophone minority communities are those whose first official language is French. That's why the definition reflects that fact.

When immigrants know both official languages, they usually favour one or the other, English or French.

For the moment, our systems calculate knowledge of French and English. CIC can therefore index the percentage of immigrants who have both French and English, or only French or only English.

It is important to know which language immigrants are most likely to use when they wind up in Canada. This explains why we have a definition based on the first official language spoken. What everyday language will immigrants use?

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Gravelle.

We're going to begin our third round with Ms. Folco.

Welcome to the committee, Ms. Folco.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Blaney.

I must say this is a committee I really care about. And we're talking about immigration, which is my favourite topic.

I'm going to ask Mr. Linklater my first question.

My first question concerns the search effort your department is making in looking for refugees in foreign refugee camps. Is any particular effort being made in this operation to identify francophones or individuals from francophone countries. If so, are you following up by giving them a certain priority, with respect, for example, to francophone minority communities or those in Quebec? If not, why not?

[Les Linklater]

Since we are working with the United Nations to ensure the protection of people who need it in foreign camps, it's very hard to target people based on their linguistic profile. If someone needs Canada's protection, it's obvious what our priority is.

However, we don't have any specific programs to target French-speaking refugees. But if we find a population, a family or individual looking for Canada's protection after being sent to us by the United Nations, we do our best to ensure that those people are directed to a community where settlement services are available in French, where they can, for example, take French courses, work or be directed to institutions where there are French-language services.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

In fact, you're telling me that the people you see in the refugee camps are people who have already been identified by UNHCR.

[Les Linklater]

That's correct. On the whole, our settlement assistance program is based on UN referrals. Moreover, we still have our settlement program based on private sponsorship parameters: groups in Canada can make referrals to us, and one of our officers conducts the evaluation of the protection claim.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Obviously, there's the analysis of the refugee's need; that's the priority; that's obvious. However, in the analysis you conduct, do you also take into account the fact that that person could settle in a francophone community somewhere in the country and increase francophone numbers?

[Les Linklater]

It's yes, with regard to the people who are sent to us by the UN. However, as regards people who are sponsored by a private group, that always depends on the profile of the community that takes them in and of the people to whom they are sent.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

I understand that.

If I have the time, Mr. Chairman, for a second question—

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Yes, you have two minutes left, Ms. Folco.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Thank you; you are very generous.

It seems quite normal for the vast majority of immigrants who arrive here and who are French-speaking to come from countries like France, Belgium, Switzerland, Haiti and so on.

However, there are far more francophone countries than that. I know something about that: I'm my party's francophone affairs critic.

Do you have any specific programs concerning other francophone countries? I'm talking about the countries that, at first glance, do not superficially appear to be francophone countries and yet are part of the Francophonie for very clear, very specific, very obvious reasons.

Do you have any immigration programs for those countries in order to try to recruit francophone immigrants there?

[Les Linklater]

We don't have any specific programs favouring language as such—like a universal system. However, we can submit an immigration request from any country. And for skilled workers, for example, we conduct an evaluation in accordance with the selection grid based on occupational skills.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

I'm going to interrupt for a moment, Mr. Linklater; pardon me. As you know, in Quebec, we have a scoring system and so on. We assign a number of points for the French language; everyone is aware of that.

How is it that you, at Immigration Canada, don't have a similar system establishing that, for people who speak French and want to settle in a francophone community somewhere in Canada, more points are assigned for that?

[Les Linklater]

Based on the selection grid, we can assign points for skills in both languages.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

In both languages or in one of the languages?

[Les Linklater]

Both languages. We conduct our primary evaluation on the candidate's preferred language. If the candidate shows skills in the second official language, we assign additional points to recognize those skills.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much, Ms. Folco.

We'll now continue with Mrs. O'Neill-Gordon.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and welcome, visitors. It's great to have you here today, and we thank you for your time.

It is certainly heartwarming to hear about the work and cooperation that is being done among groups to promote francophone communities across our country. As was mentioned, even though our government certainly promotes this issue and stands behind it 110%, the government alone cannot do it. It needs organizations, communities, and other governments all working together.

Immigration certainly is a very important tool in the development of official language minority communities. In that respect, in 2003, the House of Commons Standing Committee on Official Languages issued a report entitled “Immigration as a Development Tool in Official Language Minority Communities”. In this report, the committee recommended that DFAIT take appropriate steps to ensure that our missions abroad promote Canada's linguistic duality and the existence of anglophone and francophone communities throughout the country.

Has this recommendation been implemented, and if so, what are the steps that enable DFAIT to make OLMCs known abroad?

[Les Linklater]

If I could respond, Mr. Chair, in terms of a global response, the government, through a number of websites, particularly the CIC website, makes available the information regarding the existence of both official language minority communities and mainstream linguistic communities across the country.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Quebec has immigration offices overseas. Are they under DFAIT's jurisdiction, and in your opinion, is there a disconnect between Quebec's recruitment efforts and those of FMCs?

[Les Linklater]

While Quebec officers overseas are entitled, I believe, to official passports, I would defer to my colleagues from DFAIT. They are not, as such, under the jurisdiction of Foreign Affairs in that they are covered by the Canadian mission presence overseas.

In terms of the coordination of recruitment efforts, Quebec and Canada work very closely in terms of the immigration program. There is a great deal of coordination and harmonization of policy directions, for example, business immigration, where the regulations are quite similar, and the fact that we both use a selection grid for economic immigrants. Some of the factors are very close. Others, as a member has mentioned, provide advantage to those who speak French, in the Quebec case, and in the case of Canada, we assess both official language abilities to ensure a more complete picture of human capital.

[Chris Greenshields]

If you permit, Mr. Chairman, I'd just respond from Foreign Affairs and International Trade to the questions posed.

In terms of the presentation of Canada's linguistic duality, this is a priority for the department. For example, we are engaged throughout the world working with other francophone countries for la Semaine de la francophonie each year, a major event throughout our embassy network. We have other means, for example, through “Understanding Canada: Canadian Studies”, “Comprendre le Canada - Les Études canadiennes”.

We have programs that promote teaching and research about Canada. There's a huge interest among academics and students abroad about Canada's diversity and linguistic duality. We support teaching and research about this. There are also various programs or initiatives that have presented l'Acadie, for example, on a number of occasions. We also work with the International Association of Quebec Studies to bring together the different dimensions of Canada's diversity and linguistic duality.

In terms of the cooperation with Quebec offices abroad, as mentioned by Mr. Linklater, they are often not located in conjunction with Canadian missions. There are some cases of collocation. We work very closely with Quebec and other provincial offices abroad.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Ms. O'Neill-Gordon.

We'll now continue with Mr. Nadeau, if he so wishes.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Yes. I'd like to talk about the committee with which you're doing business on immigration to the Acadian and French Canadian communities.

Mr. Linklater, you're a member of that committee. What are that committee's priorities for Saskatchewan?

[Les Linklater]

Mr. Chairman, the committee on which the provinces sit has general priorities. There are 12 priorities. I can give you—

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

I'm talking about Saskatchewan. I know it's very different from one province to the next.

[Les Linklater]

We work in partnership with the provinces. We requested the suggestions of all the partners before establishing our list. With regard to the priorities of the Government of Saskatchewan, for example—

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

I'm not talking about the Government of Saskatchewan, but rather about the communities.

[Yves Saint-Germain]

I believe that, among the 12 priorities... I can't comment specifically on the communities themselves.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Is there a province whose specific demands you can mention to us? Since each province has a representative and an institution—whether it be in Ontario, New Brunswick or the territories—can you cite an example of a province where, in the field, needs have been expressed and things have been done since the last meeting?

[Yves Saint-Germain]

In general, the steering committee sets national priorities. Currently, we're working on—

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

I understand that. What I want to know is whether you are in the field or whether you have relations with those who are working in the field.

For example, in the bilingual corridor that runs from Moncton to Sault Ste. Marie, certain universities and colleges, whether it be the Collège universitaire de Hearst, Guelph University-Alfred Campus in eastern Ontario, the Collège Boréal or the University of Sudbury, aren't partners for the purpose of taking in new foreign students. The University of Ottawa is also located in that corridor, if we're talking about Ontario.

Could you give us an example of the priorities of that province, Ontario, where the largest number of francophones outside Quebec are located? What are the priorities? I'm asking you that in order to assess your knowledge of needs in the field.

[Yves Saint-Germain]

Here's how that works in Ontario: we have Réseaux de concertation sur l'immigration francophone, which are responsible for coordinating community efforts and identifying needs. So, together, we study needs, language training—

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

What are Ontario's needs?

[Yves Saint-Germain]

Ontario's needs concern the increase in numbers, in general, the percentage retention in the small communities. We have three networks: the East network, the Centre-Southwest network and—

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Let's talk about the East network.

[Yves Saint-Germain]

In the East, that's essentially the Ottawa network. As you saw based on the Statistics Canada study, the numbers are increasing a lot. Language training is the main demand in the East network.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

In the North, that is to say the region where my friend Mr. Gravelle comes from, what are the demands?

[Yves Saint-Germain]

In Sudbury, I don't believe I have that information.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

New Brunswick—

[Les Linklater]

I can check and answer you later.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

That would be important because that's the purpose of the exercise. This is one of the major problems. I know that Mr. Greenshields and Mr. Tachdjian will check to see what the situation is in that regard. In our report, we want to respond to the communities and be able to tell them what we can do to help them.

There are always the general objectives in the overall picture, but we never learn what's important for the communities. I saw in Mr. Greenshields' document—incidentally, you don't say “service franseskois”, but rather “service fransaskois”—that there is an adult training service in Saskatchewan. According to the list, it isn't a participating institution, but it nevertheless handles adult training. So training isn't a priority for the community. You say it's one of your main goals. In the community where the assimilation rate is appalling, this institution isn't one of your partners.

[Chris Greenshields]

We work with the institutions. We start with associations like the Association des universités de la francophonie canadienne or the Fédération des cégeps, but we also work closely with institutions on an individual basis. Every institution has its international strategy. For a fransaskois organization, for example, the emphasis is on training the francophone citizens of their province. The goal isn't necessarily to attract francophone immigrants because this is an internal program that isn't necessarily aimed at foreign students.

The presence of foreign students who have to pay high tuition fees brings additional resources that make it possible to offer programs in French, which increases the number of foreign students.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Nadeau.

That completes our third round.

Mr. Bélanger said he intended to ask other questions.

Mr. Nadeau, you would like to speak as well.

First of all, Mr. Linklater, you said during your address that your objective was to have the percentage of francophone immigrants who settle in the anglophone majority provinces correspond to the percentage francophone population outside Quebec, that is to say 4.4%. You have an intermediate target of 1.8% by 2013.

Isn't that a somewhat modest objective, since there is still a statistical lag?

[Les Linklater]

In our work and consultations with the communities, representatives and networks, we determined that a lot of work remained to be done, even though we've accomplished a lot in five years. I therefore believe that the percentage of francophone immigrants who settled outside Quebec last year was approximately 1%. To reach the target 4.4%, a considerable effort will have to be made to ensure there are networks in our communities that can take in people and retain them, which means that employers and the NGOs must be engaged to ensure that we can create conditions conducive to attraction and retention.

I believe it is more realistic to change our objectives for the intermediate phase. It will take a lot of time and energy to work in partnership with other organizations and representatives to ensure that we create the necessary conditions to attract and retain people in the minority communities.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much.

I can only encourage you to revise those realistic objectives upward.

Mr. Bélanger, go ahead, please.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Linklater, I'm pleased to learn that, when I call you to make an appointment, you'll meet with us. So I'm warning you that I'm going to do it and here's what I would like to discuss. I'm doing this in an entirely transparent manner.

I'd like to know what resources it would take to achieve 5% francophone immigration outside Quebec in 2017, on the 150th anniversary of this country.

I think this rate of 1.8% by 2013 is a problem. It isn't even one-half of the current demographic weight. If we wait until 2023 to reach that demographic weight, we'll have weakened—relatively speaking—the francophone community outside Quebec. I'm astounded to learn that we're accepting that.

Mr. Greenshields, who is the champion at Foreign Affairs?

[Chris Greenshields]

It's Mr. Gérald Cossette.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you.

My last comment concerns Ms. Glover's statement.

A number of things differentiate us, and one of them is that I'm not—

[Chris Greenshields]

Mr. Bélanger, it's Ms. Roxanne Dubé.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

All right.

I was saying that one of the differences was that I didn't hesitate, at times, to criticize my own government. I wasn't satisfied with the government response at the time.

Coming back to you, Mr. Linklater, with regard to the interpretation of the implementation of the current act, paragraph 3(3)(e) states:

3(3)(e) support the commitment of the Government of Canada to enhance the vitality of the English and French linguistic-minority communities in Canada.

Do you think we currently comply with the act?

[Les Linklater]

I believe we are doing our best to ensure the act is complied with. Partnerships are necessary in the context of a shared jurisdiction with the provinces and territories. I believe that, with the steering committee and the other infrastructure responsible for ensuring that the work is done in partnership, things are moving forward.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

There's one thing I don't understand. How can you listen to the needs of Quebec's anglophone community if you don't talk to it?

[Les Linklater]

We're talking to it. Our director general of the Quebec Region is holding a forum in order to work with Quebec's anglophone communities and to determine how we can support their efforts. As I said earlier, we're organizing citizenship ceremonies in English in Quebec for that purpose.

In addition, as part of the Multiculturalism Program, which is now the responsibility of Citizenship and Immigration Canada, we accept projects from the Quebec anglophone communities to see whether we can work with them to improve their situation on the ground.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

My interpretation of the QCGN's evidence isn't the same as Ms. Glover's. Representatives from that organization have already appeared before the committee twice. In my view, they don't get the impression they've been consulted.

Furthermore, Mr. Saint-Germain, you yourself said you hadn't consulted them.

Can you make a commitment to consult that community so that a committee like the one that already exists for the francophone communities outside Quebec is established, whether it be at the federal or the Quebec level?

[Les Linklater]

To respect the provincial jurisdiction over immigration under the Canada-Quebec Accord, the matter would have to be addressed with the Government of Quebec so as to ensure there is no objection on its part.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much, Mr. Bélanger. You had 16 seconds left.

Mr. Nadeau, can you do better?

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

I doubt it, Mr. Chairman. I can't for the moment, but I'm working on it. I recognize a champion in Mr. Bélanger.

Mr. Greenshields, we're going to conduct a very simple exercise concerning the double standard phenomenon. This isn't to embarrass you.

In your opinion, is there a Canadian embassy overseas that provides no service in English?

[Chris Greenshields]

Not to my knowledge. The same is true for French.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

All right, but did you hear the names I cited earlier?

[Chris Greenshields]

Yes, absolutely.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Are you going to read the minutes? Are you going to read what Sheila Fraser, the Auditor General, said? It's worth it. That would help us; it would also help our citizens because some don't speak English, and we want to lend them a hand. It helps when we have very open three-way communication in order to advance extremely sensitive issues. You understand that; when it comes to immigration, it's often touching.

Furthermore, coming back to Mr. Saint-Germain, earlier in my first round of questions, we talked about Destination Canada. We're aware that's going on at the Canadian embassy in Paris and that it's to encourage French-language immigration—whether it be French as a first or second language. I'm aware that there is no Destination Canada at the other Canadian embassies elsewhere in the world to encourage anglophone immigration. We can understand that: there's no problem getting services in English; it's done automatically.

In our view—I know it's not you who decide—are there currently any plans for a program like Destination Canada, which is offered at the Canadian embassy in France, to be offered elsewhere in the world, to encourage francophone immigration? Unless I'm mistaken, there are 57 member countries of the Organisation internationale de la francophonie. I'd like to know whether there are any plans in that context.

[Yves Saint-Germain]

With regard to Destination Canada, there are a lot of activities at the Tunis office, where information sessions are held. Tunis isn't the exception to the rule; the other offices also have activities. In Eastern Europe, as I said, in Bucharest, information sessions are also being held.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

You're saying it's in French, of course.

[Yves Saint-Germain]

Yes, in Sofia, Bulgaria, in Chisinau, Moldavia, in Bucharest and in other cities in Romania. Our offices take part in the collective effort in Paris in November, but they have information sessions during the year. It's the same thing in Damascus. Work is being done in Syria and in Lebanon, where there are a lot of francophones. The Cairo office obviously works on Egypt, but it took part in the education forum in Canada in January of this year and in other forums to attract students through Egypt. There have been sessions at the Rabat office and in other cities. There is an annual education fair. There's promotion of Canada in general.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Could you prepare a list for us, please? From the documents I've read, this was only offered in Paris. You're giving me other information, and I'm very pleased about that. Could you prepare that list for us?

The representatives of the Société franco-manitobaine who came to testify this week—it was excellent testimony—told us that they themselves had done a tour, and they named a few countries that you mentioned earlier.

Their means are obviously limited relative to those of the Canadian government. Nevertheless, it's important that all organizations that want French immigration, whether it be in Quebec or in the rest of Canada, know that in order to have benchmarks. Even if some know it already, it seems to me it would be good to have that list so we can send it to them. If it's redundant information, we'll at least have made the effort to ensure we covered all the angles in the field.

Do you agree with that request, Mr. Chairman?

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Yes.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Oh, oh! You'll read the blues; it was very interesting. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I've finished.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

You finished 30 seconds before the end of the time allotted to you, Mr. Nadeau. You put it past me that time.

We're going to challenge Ms. Boucher and Mr. Généreux.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

I'm going to share the time allotted to me with Mr. Généreux.

Something I read in the Current Research Compendium on Francophone Immigration in Canada really spoke to me. It's the paragraph entitled “Immigration: A Population Perceived As Different Than “Us”. Here's what it says:

However, minority environments are inherently and by necessity self-protective, and they define themselves on the basis of linguistic and cultural boundaries. By the same token, this process tends to inadvertently push away the very population the communities are trying to attract (perceived as different/other than “us”). This is the identity-based argument. The question that needs to be addressed then is how, as a group, does this redefine and broaden the collective identity? The will to attract and retain new populations cannot be realized without a reflection on identity in the context of diversity. This tension between the demographic argument and the identity argument and the underlying diverging perspectives of a utilitarian logic or one of social exclusion is at the heart of the analysis undertaken by researchers and community stakeholders.

Does that mean that now, when we want to attract francophone immigrants, we need an inclusive “us” instead of an exclusive “us”? Is that in fact what that means? We often identify with the community, but we should also open up so that the “us” becomes inclusive instead of being exclusive.

[Yves Saint-Germain]

Absolutely, the Canadian Francophonie is now multicultural and highly diversified. The host francophone communities in this country are working on the identity aspect.

CIC's role is really to support the host communities through our Immigrant Settlement and Adaptation Program. We invest $600 million a year in reception services. However, one of the components of our reception service is the Welcoming Communities program. In English, it's called Welcoming Communities.

This program enables the welcoming communities to offer various integration awareness activities to newcomers from various cultures and religions. So we provide services that make it possible to offer information sessions and to work with the municipalities and local communities, with the aid of our settlement services.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

All right, that's what I wanted to know.

I'll hand over to Mr. Généreux.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Mr. Greenshields, my sister is responsible for the International Office at the Université Laval, in Quebec City. You may have had occasion to work with her since she worked for EduCanada last year, replacing someone, to develop the brand image—

[Chris Greenshields]

Yes, I very much liked her.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

It's good to hear that. I'll tell her.

To sum up, I believe she helped to develop the brand image and to sell that image around the world last year. She just got back from Australia a few days ago, where she went, once again, to promote Canadian universities, particularly the Université Laval, across the country.

The presentation states that we would like to achieve 4.4% francophone immigration outside Quebec by 2023 and that Asia is a market, if I can use that term, where there is high potential. In view of the phenomenal growth of these emerging countries, they are probably countries with very high potential. You are probably right.

Have you already started to make an effort, particularly in those regions of the world, to recruit students? I think it's quite clear, in view of what we've heard today and previously, that education is a very good attraction and retention method, particularly in Canada, since we have an extremely well developed educational network across the country.

Have you started making efforts in those specific regions?

[Jean-Philippe Tachdjian]

Yes. Thank you for your question.

Asia definitely consists mainly of anglophone markets, but we think there is nevertheless potential on the francophone side as well. We see Quebec educational institutions making major efforts and we would like to try to see whether we can attract—as I said, the potential is modest but nevertheless real—people from Asian countries to the francophone minority communities.

That said, we're making efforts. As you know, there is the network of French lycées around the world. A few days ago, I received a message from our colleague in Hong Kong asking me to send him more promotional material in French. He had a little, but he wanted a lot more because he was going to attend a promotional fair at the French lycée in Hong Kong to encourage people to enrol at Canadian universities, anglophone and francophone.

Consequently, I believe there's nevertheless a certain amount of interest. We must develop that, but the fact remains that the majority of francophone students who come to study in Canada don't come from Asia. There are a number, as I was saying, who come from China, a number from Vietnam, but most always come from Europe and North Africa.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

That's fine, thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much, Mr. Généreux.

That concludes the first part of our meeting. Consequently, we will suspend the sitting for a few minutes to enable our witnesses to leave. We will then resume to discuss current business, which, if I'm not mistaken, will be done in camera.

Thanks to the witnesses. It was very interesting.

[Proceedings continue in camera]