Official Languages Committee on June 1st, 2010

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Welcome to Canada!

[Apollinaire Yengayenge]

It's true; it scandalized me. That's the system; we clearly see that the country has a number of facets. There are a number of gears, and the government's will—

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

We have leadership.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Godin.

On the subject of credential recognition, Miguel, you said that your parents were teachers at the primary and secondary level respectively? Have they found a job in Canada?

[Miguel Cédric Tchuemboum Kouam]

As I told you, my father would have had to go to university for two more years to get recognition, and he was asked to submit his marks from his last year in high school, when he has been a teacher for 25 years.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

All right, thank you.

Ms. Zarac.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Thank you very much for this invitation today. What we're hearing is very interesting. So I'm very pleased to be here. Once again, thank you very much.

There are so many questions that come to mind that I don't exactly know where to start. Ms. Desautels, you mentioned that Ottawa is a bilingual city on paper, and , incidentally, I would add that Canada is also a bilingual country on paper only, unfortunately.

With that, I'd like to talk to the students. The parents of two of them already knew French when they arrived here. In your case, Andrea, your parents knew neither English nor French. I see that you have integrated very well; you speak very good French. How did it go with your parents?

[Andrea Santana]

My parents are divorced. I came here with my mother, and my father stayed in Brazil. Today my mother can get by in English, but she doesn't master it as my sisters and I do. So she doesn't really speak a lot of English or French.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Can you say what might have helped her more? At some point, since she spoke neither English nor French, was that very difficult for you to bear? I suppose that, at times, you felt like the parent rather than the child. I would like you to talk a little about that with us.

[Andrea Santana]

My mother wanted us to learn French. She taught Portuguese. Even though she didn't speak French, she at least wanted us to read books and to consult dictionaries. So it was she who made the decision. For her, it was really hard because she still needed me or my sisters to translate things. I made the calls for her.

She also sees a lot of Portuguese friends. So she doesn't practise her English. She only speaks Portuguese. That's why she's never made any progress. She doesn't want us to speak English together. But I would like us to do it so she can improve her English, but she doesn't want to; she wants to keep the tradition of speaking Portuguese. She doesn't want to mix the two, English and Portuguese. She wants to keep Portuguese.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Has she taken any of the courses that are offered to her by Citizenship and Immigration Canada?

[Andrea Santana]

Yes, she has taken some courses. However, it's really hard for an adult to learn a language. It was quite difficult for me, but my 10-year-old sister speaks French perfectly.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Was she able to attend all the courses, or did she have to go and work at some point?

[Andrea Santana]

She took courses during the day and she worked in the evenings.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

She did both at the same time. Thank you.

I'm going to do like my colleague; I'm going to call you Mr. Apollinaire. I won't say your family name, unfortunately, even though I'd like to.

You mentioned that the primary reason for immigrating to Canada was to give your children a better quality of life. However, I believe there's a heavy price to pay for the parents, isn't there?

You also mentioned that people weren't given enough information. What would you have liked to know before immigrating to Canada? Who would have responded to your needs better when you arrived?

[Apollinaire Yengayenge]

It's simply that we have an ideal picture of the country before immigrating. We believe that, as soon as we arrive at the airport, the carpet will be rolled out for us and we'll have a job. There's really nothing that prepares a newcomer for landing here. It's surprising to arrive here. I think there should be a lot more integration courses for those who choose to immigrate, as soon as they arrive here. Those courses should be given by people who are very familiar with our culture and who can orient us and tell us what's different from back home and what we have to do here.

I'm telling you that sincerely because I've made two attempts at immigration. I went back to the other country. My children were here, and they had to go back twice. We arrived in Quebec City in 2005. I followed them in 2006, and I stayed four months. Then, finding myself with nothing, I went back to take my position at the university, like what the father of Miguel Tchuemboum Kouam will be doing.

Then I came back. My wife was already here in Ottawa to take the courses she needed at the University of Ottawa. I also saw that I had no opportunities. I went back, but I ultimately realized you can't live that way, separated from your family. So I made the decision to come back. Once back here, I told myself that I had to achieve something. I started something at the University of Ottawa; I saw that wasn't working. I wanted to do a doctorate. Where was that leading? I had three degrees: one in theology, a second one in history and a third in computer science, in documents, in electronic document management. So three degrees were enough for me; I was versatile. I really liked to work. I had followed my path on the outside. I haven't just lived in Burundi; I also lived in France for at least seven years, in total.

When I arrived here, I really felt an attachment at the Cité collégiale. The programs developed there show us how to live in Canada. They tell us about Canada; they present Canada to us and its economic realities, consumer habits, credit card-related problems. We're shown tricks that enable us to manage both our time and our finances, and we're shown how to talk to employers. That opened my eyes, and, once I'd finished, I was taken right away.

I figured that parents had to be well prepared. What we lacked, ultimately, was knowing how to enter the workforce.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Ms. Zarac.

Now we'll continue with Ms. Boucher.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you for having us, but thank you in particular for this magnificent lesson in life.

We're often in our bubble on Parliament Hill, and we don't see beyond what goes on there. I have a number of questions.

I come from Quebec, and I'm a member of Parliament there. In the Quebec City region, apart from Laval University, it's in my constituency, Beauport—Limoilou, that there is the largest pool of immigrants. They come from everywhere. I often hear what you're telling us.

First, I'd like to know how many languages you speak relatively fluently.

[Miguel Cédric Tchuemboum Kouam]

The only language I speak fluently is French.

[Andrea Santana]

And you?

[Kelly Bararu]

I speak French.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

You, the young people of today, are much more open to the world. You have the Internet now, which was not the case for us at the time.

When you're an immigrant and you arrive in a country where there are a number of languages, in this case two official languages, English and French... When I arrived in Ottawa, I only knew three words: "yes", "no" and "toaster". I spoke no English. I did a deal with my anglophone co-workers: I spoke English to them, but I demanded that they speak French to me. What we said to each other wasn't always brilliant, but now when we speak, we manage to do it in both languages. I've always seen the ability to speak a number of languages as an advantage. It was an opening onto the world for me.

I would like you to tell me how Canada is presented to you in your country in a way that would make you come and settle here. The question is mainly for you, Mr. Apollinaire.

[Apollinaire Yengayenge]

We mainly came to Canada for my wife. Canada is an ideal country. It's a country of peace, of course, where children are properly educated. So we essentially came for the children's education. I didn't know Canada. I knew Europe, but I had no illusions: France is definitely more closed to foreigners than Canada when it comes to the workforce. I know today that Canada is a country that respects qualifications. No one cares where you come from or who you are. They respect competence, and that's very important for me.

It's true that Canada was sold to me as an ideal country. Of course, we didn't know what we were going to discover. So I discovered, gradually, through integration, that there was no difference between an immigrant and a Canadian. Here in Ottawa, if you come from any other province, you have the same chance of getting a job as an immigrant from a country in Africa or Europe, in particular. Other factors being equal, you have the same chances, and that's very important.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Do I have any time left, Mr. Chairman?

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

You have one minute left, Ms. Boucher.