Official Languages Committee on June 1st, 2010

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

I'd like to tell the students that they got my attention.

You're here by choice or because your parents came here, but I see that integration was quite difficult.

Today, what is your relationship with the francophone community here, which is in the minority? Do you have any frequent contact with it?

[Miguel Cédric Tchuemboum Kouam]

That depends what you mean it.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Outside of school, do you have any groups of francophone friends? Do you have any contact with the community that welcomed you to Ottawa? You have the school, but outside that do you have any contact with francophone minorities?

[Miguel Cédric Tchuemboum Kouam]

I speak French with my friends. I always speak French, even with those who speak English and French. I'd really like to speak better English, but I still speak French with them.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

That won't take long.

Thank you very much, Ms. Boucher.

We'll complete the third round with Mr. Nadeau.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Miguel Cédric said something earlier that troubled me but that I understand. I've never been in this kind of situation, and this is the first time I've heard these kinds of remarks. You said you were waiting for money from Cameroon to give you a better quality of life here as a result of work problems. This is an upside down world for me; I have always heard the contrary. I have Haitian friends who send money to their families in Haiti because the economy is weaker there. There's work to do.

As you say so well, Canada mustn't dangle things in front of newcomers, but rather tell the truth right off the bat. The issue of credential recognition is a provincial jurisdiction. You know that, in Canada, the provinces and federal government have different jurisdictions. There are all kinds of criteria that must be known and that are complicated; we get lost in them as well, but we have to make them known in order to give people a chance to know what they should expect before they arrive.

I have a question. I know this is a hot topic in French-speaking Ontario. I lived in Saskatchewan for six and a half years. I went there to fight for Fransaskois schools management. What helped us a great deal with the Fransaskois is that they agreed to allow the public and Catholic school sectors to join forces to house Saskatchewan's French-language schools. There are two systems for funding schools in Ontario. I'm not saying it's a sin, but it's a fact. There are two systems. If there were only one, wouldn't that be a greater help with regard to funding, just as that helped us when I was in Saskatchewan?

Ms. Brûlé, you who work at the school board, where do you stand on this issue? Is this a possibility or are the two systems still very much divided?

[Monique Brûlé]

I don't believe that would improve matters with regard to the integration of francophone immigrants. I'll give you an example. Here at the Conseil des écoles catholiques du Centre-Est, we work a lot with the public school board; we have joint initiatives. So even though we have two school systems, that doesn't prevent a high degree of cooperation between the two boards. I don't think that would improve matters with regard to the integration of immigrants.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

You're talking about the integration of newcomers, but, in financial terms, wouldn't it be better to have a single system instead of two? Have there been any studies on this subject? Cash is king; we know that. Have any studies been conducted, or is this a taboo subject that isn't touched upon?

[Monique Brûlé]

I can't state a position on that question. It's beyond my competence.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

All right, I understand.

Mr. Yengayenge, earlier you talked about the issue of parents who have family and financial responsibilities. I suppose you have children at school here, or at least that you have children in the school system. To your knowledge, within the parents association, for example, either at Samuel-Genest or elsewhere, or at the school commission, is there a way for immigrant parents to hold a forum to say whether it's necessary to improve the situation—I'm still talking about solutions—to talk about their situation and about their difficulties? Is there a forum for that, a way for parents to step forward?

[Apollinaire Yengayenge]

I believe the Collège catholique Samuel-Genest offers that possibility. This school, which my children attend, seeks a partnership with parents. I know that. It's obvious. However, the parents are always isolated at home and have no information, despite what the Canadian education system offers. They know nothing and have become illiterate in all senses of that word. They can't follow current affairs, and don't even know how the schools are organized. How can they be motivated to come? Parents must acquire a whole set of information before becoming real partners. Today, the Collège catholique Samuel-Genest is playing alone, and I don't know whether any supervision is possible when the children are between the parents and the school. There must be problems after school; that's for certain. I'm not going to discuss them. There are even problems in certain families where the children and parents don't agree.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much, Mr. Nadeau.

We'll now begin our fourth and final round. We are going to cut it short, since the bus that is to take us back is waiting for us. However, I would like to mention to committee members and to parliamentarians that, if possible, we would like to take a picture at the end of the session to immortalize this meeting. I must tell you I'm very proud I insisted on getting the budget that allowed us to hold this meeting here, my colleagues and I.

We still have one last round to go.

Ms. O'Neill-Gordon, I would invite you to start it up with a three-minute round. Thank you.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Mr. Chair, as an educator, a former teacher, I certainly can relate to the challenges that—

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Pardon me, Ms. O'Neill-Gordon.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I have a point of order. Perhaps we should explain to those who don't understand enough English how the translation system works.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

It's channel 0 for the floor. You can hear the speeches in both languages. Channel 1 is reserved for English and channel 2 for French. I take this opportunity to thank the people assigned to translation and those reporting to the clerk. They do very good team work.

With that, Ms. O'Neill-Gordon, go ahead please.

Let's start again.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

As a former teacher, I certainly can relate to the challenges educators face each day, and in this situation, I understand even more the challenges that you're being faced with. I have to say that your compassion and love for your job is obvious. As I always say, that's one thing teachers must have and it has to be out front, and it's very obvious in this situation.

To the students, I have to say how much I admire you. I am coming from a bilingual province and I have taken French courses on several occasions, but I'm not nearly up to par with where you are, so you certainly need to be congratulated on a job well done.

Mr. Yengayenge, you mentioned that it would be important for us to better prepare you to enter the workforce. I'm wondering if you could give us some recommendations that we could take back on what way we could do this.

[Apollinaire Yengayenge]

The first thing I can say, and which is very important, is that the academic qualifications of newcomers are not questioned. This is often the difficult cultural difference. These qualifications are much more related to culture. We don't operate in the same way as Canadians. We don't manage time in the same way. As a result of a number of factors, we are different, and the qualified parents who come here simply need to be introduced to Canadian values, whether it's in the education system, the culture, the economy or in the way of communicating, among other things.

As you know, we come from a country marked by a colonial power in which hierarchy, obedience and order prevailed. We parents experienced that. The schools operate in the same way. Often you can see that even our children have experienced that hierarchy, as a result of which, under that authority, creativity, imagination and resourcefulness have been completely inhibited.

When immigrants arrive here, you give them the opportunity to do internships. They benefit from this kind of learning. Employers, on the other hand, expect them to show they deserve the position for which they're doing the internship.

Opportunities are often lost, simply as a result of a lack of understanding and misunderstandings. Sometimes we're told that we aren't francophones simply because we consider it impolite to ask the employer to repeat what he has said. He then feels that someone sent him a person who is supposed to be a francophone but who in fact is not. For example, if some asks us: "Quand est-ce que vous rentrez?", for us, "rentrer" means to go home, and not to go to the office. We're dealing with all these cultural adjustments.

We don't even know how to promote ourselves in situations where we have the same qualifications as others. Young immigrant students who attend the Cité collégiale are the living proof of that. They sell themselves less in the workforce than native-born Canadians do, despite their technical qualifications, and even if they occasionally have better marks than them. Employers are surprised when a prize-winner from a school they know are not that good at selling themselves. It's not their academic qualifications that are in question; it's much more their way of being, their attitudes and their demeanour.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much, Mr. Apollinaire and Ms. O'Neill-Gordon.

Mr. Bélanger.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you.

I have three minutes and three messages.

The first message is for the students and those who are at the back, the others who have been so patient all this time.

We committee members are going to try to prepare a report. We would like to do it by the end of June, at least based on what we've heard to date, regarding the importance of immigration for the official language minority communities, like our community here in Ontario.

If some of you would like to send us comments on what you've heard this morning or on anything else, you should do it quite soon, even this week. I have an e-mail address that you can note down, if you're interested: [e-mail]. If we receive your comments this week, there is a good chance they can be distributed to us and be considered in the study and in our report which will be prepared soon.

The second message concerns the bricks. I promised my colleagues to explain why they are here.

Earlier the principal gave me some bricks. These are bricks that come from my home village. I come from mid-northern Ontario, from a small village called Mattawa. These are some bricks from the hospital that has just been demolished. There was a big dispute. Some people wanted to prevent the demolition of the hospital, which couldn't be saved, to prevent the construction of a school at that location, hoping that the school would be built somewhere else. I took part in the dispute a bit.

[Some voices]

Oh, oh!

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

It's been settled. The hospital is demolished, but the compromise—because we often make them—is that one of the walls of the former hospital has been preserved and will be incorporated in the new school. That school will be part of the Conseil scolaire catholique Franco-Nord. The school will be under construction shortly and will be ready for next year.

So these are two bricks from the former hospital that I proudly accept, sir. Thank you very much.

[Some voices]

Bravo!

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

As for the third message, I want to thank my colleagues for agreeing to the suggestion that we come and sit at a school. It's not just for what we've gotten out of it here this morning. What we've heard about real-life problems facing newcomers must again become central what we'll be studying and recommending. It's also so you students can see politicians from all parties, Conservatives, Liberals, New Democrats and Bloc Québécois, working together. You'll notice that we haven't hurled any insults at each other.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Or bricks.