Official Languages Committee on May 7th, 2013

[Guy Leclair]

Yes, but that is just a very small part of it. The second benefit is that this framework assists in teaching, the production of education material and teacher training. All teachers in Canada would be on the same page. They would teach in virtually the same way, but they would teach different things, depending on their provincial or territorial situation. That would enable everyone to be at the same level, within a single framework. That is part of learning.

In Europe, they view the framework as a tool that promotes independence; that is to say that students take charge of their own learning. It is based on self-training. Students learn to manage their learning and to learn by themselves. This is based on statements such as, "I can." So it is very positive. We often hear young people say, "I don't speak French," but the evaluation using this approach is based on "I can." I can describe my family, I can talk about a TV program, and so on. It is very positive. There are portfolios and passports. The child keeps everything that represents the levels of his or her progress. We try to ensure that learners retain this way of viewing the matter for the rest of their lives.

This is a comprehensive approach. It is really based on learning a language, not on a test at the end of grade 10 indicating that the individual is bilingual.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

Ms. Bateman, you have the floor.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to the witnesses for being with us here today and for giving us their comments. This is a very important subject for me and for many people living in my riding.

You talked about added value. I agree with you, madam.

Sir, you mentioned the shortage of teachers. I find this situation somewhat disturbing as a parent. You talked about necessary measures to improve teachers' skills. I am very much interested in that.

Could you go back to that, please?

[Guy Leclair]

With regard to teacher training, it would be a good idea for teachers to be involved in cultural and linguistic exchanges at the federal level. Francophone teachers from Quebec could go and teach outside their province. Conversely, anglophone teachers could come and teach in Quebec. There is indeed a shortage of second-language teachers in Quebec. These kinds of exchanges would help expand the cultural component, which is very important in learning a language. Teachers need to maintain a lot more contact in their second language.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Yes, I agree.

[Guy Leclair]

The techniques addressed in teacher training in the universities must be more adapted to the needs of the profession.

Our organization has created a portfolio based on the common framework of reference for languages which enables teachers who are learning French, but who will also be teaching it, to follow the framework themselves and have a portfolio with passports, a biography and so on. They therefore learn to manage all that so that they can then put it into practice in the classroom. We therefore have to develop these kinds of tools so that we can make self-evaluation, self-instruction and self-learning possible.

Researchers in the university faculties of education must be able to work with professors to determine what works and what does not. Then teaching resources and training must be established based on those best practices and applied in class. That has not been done in Canada for a long time, particularly in core French instruction, where it goes back a few years. Core French instruction practices must be reviewed and improved. Once again, these measures will benefit teachers. However, all the support for infrastructure, teaching resources and classes is necessary.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

More has to be done.

[Guy Leclair]

More classes, more material and so on.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Yes.

Thank you, Mr. Leclair.

Ms. Kenny, do you also want to give us your opinion on this matter?

[Marie-France Kenny]

I think there is an opportunity for cultural exchanges in our communities.

We have strong, vibrant communities, but we do not very often see immersion teachers taking part in activities. And yet activities take place.

Earlier we were asked about what the federal government could do in that regard. Few extracurricular, cultural or athletic activities are offered to immersion students in French outside their schools. Perhaps we should promote the idea that students should not just learn French at school, but that they can also get out and live, taking part in activities in which they can speak. I think we must create tools, a fund or a scholarship to enable students and teachers to have access to that.

I think it is fantastic that we are talking about the evaluation framework, but it is important to have a Canadian framework and for us not limit ourselves to the European models alone.

Without generalizing, because I do not know all the children who are in immersion, I would say that students who take an immersion program often know about Charles Aznavour and Francis Cabrel, but not Daniel Lavoie or Marie-Jo Thério. There are francophone artists here in Canada. So—

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

We have Suzanne Pinel.

[Marie-France Kenny]

Precisely, and Ms. DiCaire, who is also Franco-Ontarian, and whom you certainly know.

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

Véronic.

[Marie-France Kenny]

Véronic DiCaire, exactly.

So they do not necessarily know about our artists. We absolutely have to have exchanges with Quebec, but also exchanges in our communities to promote sharing.

I have to tell you that the mandate of our communities is to respond to all these beautiful people, although we do not necessarily have all the resources to reach all those people.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

All right, thank you.

Mr. Dionne Labelle, you have the floor.

[Pierre Dionne Labelle, NDP, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Welcome to our witnesses.

At the outset, I would like to get some technical information from the Executive Director of the Canadian Association of Second Language Teachers.

You said that there are 35,000 second-language teachers. Are those immersion teachers or second-language teachers?

[Guy Leclair]

They are second-language teachers. There are three programs for teaching French as a second language: the core program, the intensive program and the immersion program.

[Pierre Dionne Labelle, NDP, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

All right, thank you.

Ms. Kenny, I believe you mentioned that people were waiting in line to get a chance to register their children for immersion programs. We know that education is subject to provincial legislation.

Why are the provinces not more dynamic in responding to that demand? What is the situation in that regard?

[Marie-France Kenny]

I think that may be due to people's ignorance of the value that bilingualism adds.

Our communities do a lot of work with the provinces, which increasingly recognize the contribution of francophones and linguistic duality. However, not all provinces have reached the same point. The investment by the provinces varies with the state of their relationships with the community.

It also has to be said that the message we hear, particularly in the English-speaking provinces is that linguistic duality and bilingualism are expensive. As a francophone, I apparently cost the government a lot of money, whereas it has never been determined how much an anglophone costs the government. I do not cost the government any more than my neighbour. However, I believe that I pay as much as my neighbour and, in some instances, perhaps more because I am bilingual. In short, no one has ever measured the socioeconomic contribution of linguistic duality.

However, the Fraser Institute has prepared reports, based on incomplete data, telling us it cost a certain amount of money to translate such and such a document. Those reports do harm and do not paint a rosy picture of linguistic duality, whereas linguistic duality is worth a lot. We are recognized outside the country. We are able to do business internationally because we are a bilingual country.

Let us say that a completely bilingual company will probably do better better business than a company equivalent to mine that is unilingual English or French.

[Pierre Dionne Labelle, NDP, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

I am going to ask you to continue elaborating on your argument on this point.

Let us say that I am at the British Columbia Ministry of Education. I would look at the make-up of the population and see that 4.5% of the population speaks Punjabi, 3.2% speaks Cantonese, 2.9% speaks Mandarin and 1.3% speaks French.

I monitor the economic development of China and the Asian countries in general. I figure that, if I chose to offer immersion courses, why would I not offer them in Cantonese?

[Marie-France Kenny]

To my knowledge, Punjabi and Mandarin are not the country's official languages. However, they are very definitely valued for the purposes of international exchange.

As Canadian citizens, we must educate our children in both official languages. I speak four languages. I learned English before learning Spanish and Italian. I thought it was simply logical because I live in Canada. That enables me to do more business internationally in French than in Spanish and Italian at this point in my career.

[Pierre Dionne Labelle, NDP, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Since Canada's economic situation and make-up have changed considerably, does the federal government need leadership on this linguistic project concerning linguistic duality? If there is no leadership in this area, where are we headed?

[Marie-France Kenny]

Successive governments have told us about the importance of linguistic duality since the Official Languages Act was implemented.

I am going to be very frank with you, as I usually am, by the way. I think it is time to walk the walk. We have to do what we need to do as a society to ensure that people across the country acknowledge linguistic duality.

One message has to be understood: linguistic duality does not mean that everybody has to be bilingual. The more bilingual people there are, the better it will be. However, we must nevertheless be realistic. Linguistic duality makes it possible for me to live in French at home in Saskatchewan, while enabling my neighbour across the street not to speak a word of French if that is his choice. However, he has to respect my choice to raise and educate my children in French.

That is linguistic duality. It is not necessary for everyone everywhere to be bilingual. In an ideal world, yes, we would all speak seven languages, like Mr. Chisu.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

All right, thank you.

Mr. O'Toole, you have the floor.

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am going to ask my questions in English.

My daughter, who is in grade 1, is in the fortunate position to be completing her first year in French immersion. She's well served by an exceptional teacher who actually remains a resident of Quebec and travels to Ontario, and has done that for over 25 years, to teach in a board in my community. She's an exceptional teacher. I'll send her this transcript.

Monsieur Leclair, I've heard a few times about the shortage, and I certainly see it in my own community. I see that at your previous appearance your organization, as one of its five recommendations, suggested a national campaign to promote second language teaching. Before the federal government engages in something like that, is there anything being done at the provincial level in provinces where the shortage exists?

I'm also wondering if your organization is involved in any of those existing provincial initiatives.