Evidence of meeting #79 for Official Languages in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was teachers.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Jacques Gourde Conservative Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thanks to the witnesses for being with us here today.
My questions will be along the same lines. Ms. Kenny and Mr. Leclair, I would ask you to answer them.
We transfer money for immersion. Would it be preferable for that money to be paid to students as scholarships? Students could register in programs, and the institutions would then have an interest in going after the money available through the students.
If 10,000 students had scholarships to go to those institutions, we would be sure that the money is distributed directly to Canadians who want to enter immersion programs. That would also be an indirect way of funding the institutions. They would offer immersion courses and would thus indirectly get the scholarships. We are mainly talking about the postsecondary level, CEGEPs and universities.
3:55 p.m.
President, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada
Look, I am not an expert on the subject. However, if you say you need a scholarship to study in immersion, in French as a first language or in English, we are no longer talking about free schools or about fair access for all Canadians, anglophone or francophone. We have an education system that is free of charge for all Canadians up to the secondary level. I think that is important.
I do not know the cost per student. However, if I am given a scholarship, it would have to be a good scholarship to pay for infrastructure and everything. That is what we are talking about. The money transferred to the provinces for infrastructure and teaching is also used for teacher training. It serves many purposes.
We have to ask ourselves the following question: does the money get to where it is supposed to go? Once we have answered that, we will really be in a position to see how our school systems are doing with regard to education in French as a first language, immersion, core French and at the intensive level.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Jacques Gourde Conservative Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC
Mr. Leclair, do you have anything to add on that point?
3:55 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Association of Second Language Teachers
First of all, I think that is a promising idea, but we would have to think about it a bit. The first thing that comes to mind is that this is an optional program. I do not know whether the idea that English as a second language and French as a second language are important values is strong enough to take root. That requires a little more than an optional approach.
I would like to make a suggestion about accountability. The memorandum of understanding between Canadian Heritage and the Council of Ministers of Education has expired. Negotiations will resume shortly. This would be an appropriate time to try to add an accountability mechanism to ensure that funding allocated to certain programs, such as programs for French as a first language, French as a second language or English as a second language, is properly used, or at least properly reported.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Jacques Gourde Conservative Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC
Immersion programs are obviously very popular. The schools are full; they cannot meet the demand. However, other witnesses told us that it was hard to find teachers to provide high-quality instruction in those immersion schools.
How many teachers do you think should be added? Is a schedule possible? If we need teachers tomorrow morning, we may not find any. If we inform the educational institutions that we need second language teachers across Canada, it will nevertheless take four or five years before new teachers are available on the market. We must therefore have a long-term strategy so that we can meet the demand. We have to proceed gradually.
3:55 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Association of Second Language Teachers
Yes. I do not have the exact figures, but I can say that there are four million students in the majority schools. I am not sure about Quebec. Two million anglophone students are currently taking core French, intensive French or other French courses in the majority schools. There are one million students in Quebec and approximately 300,000 immersion students. So we are already talking about virtually twice the number of students in the programs. This is no small task. I agree with you. It could not be done in short order.
4 p.m.
Conservative
Jacques Gourde Conservative Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC
We are talking about partnerships with the provinces here, since this is their jurisdiction. If we force the issue too much, do we not risk irritating them by sending the message that we want all Canadians to have access to immersion courses so that more and more people in future generations will speak French? There also has to be a signal from the provinces.
4 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Association of Second Language Teachers
There has to be a collective will. I agree. That is why we suggest in our recommendations that financial incentives should be offered to provinces wishing to adopt compulsory second language programs.
May 7th, 2013 / 4 p.m.
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thanks to our three guests.
Mr. Quinty, do not hesitate to speak. We have not yet heard from you. That is why I have no questions to ask you.
Mr. Leclair, I would like to ask you to repeat your figures so that we have them clear in our minds. You said there were 300,000—
4 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Association of Second Language Teachers
Approximately 300,000 people are studying French in immersion programs. There are one million second-language students in Quebec.
4 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Association of Second Language Teachers
Yes, and there are two million in Canada.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
One million Quebeckers are studying a second language?
4 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Association of Second Language Teachers
In Quebec, and that is English and French as a second language.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
Of course, because there are not a million anglophone students in Quebec.
And there are two million second-language students outside Quebec. Is that correct?
4 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Association of Second Language Teachers
Yes, in French as a second language.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
You said that the demand for immersion schools exceeded supply. Do you have any figures to pass on to us on that subject?
4 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Association of Second Language Teachers
That information is unfortunately unavailable. We have already asked the question. A study should be conducted. We cannot quantify the demand. Some school divisions set the limit. All the programs have quotas. No figures are kept on people who file an application that is denied.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
We are talking about 35,000 second language teachers here, but that is not just in French, is it?
4 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Association of Second Language Teachers
No. Our organization covers English and French as second languages.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
All right.
That does not include Spanish or other languages?
4 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Association of Second Language Teachers
No. That is more at the university and private levels. We focus more on the primary and secondary levels.
