Evidence of meeting #6 for Official Languages in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was languages.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Graham Fraser  Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages
Johane Tremblay  Director and General Counsel, Legal Affairs Branch, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages
Sylvain Giguère  Assistant Commissioner, Policy and Communications Branch, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Michael Chong

Welcome to the sixth meeting of the Standing Committee on Official Languages on Wednesday, November 27, 2013. We are meeting today pursuant to Standing Order 108 and the motion adopted by the committee on Monday, November 18, 2013.

We're here to discuss the annual report for 2012-13 of the Commissioner of Official Languages, referred to the committee on Thursday, November 7, 2013.

We have in front of us this afternoon Madame Tremblay, Monsieur Giguère, Madam Saikaley and, most importantly, the commissioner himself, Mr. Fraser.

You may begin with an opening statement, Mr. Fraser.

3:30 p.m.

Graham Fraser Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Chair and members of the committee, good afternoon. Bonjour.

I'm particularly pleased to be here today to share a few of my thoughts on my 2012-13 annual report, which I tabled in Parliament on November 7.

First, I'd like to recognize the recently re-elected chair of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Official Languages, the Honourable Michael Chong. Mr. Chair, I'm confident your knowledge of our official languages and your invaluable leadership on key issues such as bilingual education will serve the committee well in its deliberations during this current session of Parliament.

This past February, Prime Minister Stephen Harper asked me to stay on as Commissioner of Official Languages for an additional three years. I was honoured to accept. Over the course of my first mandate as commissioner, one of the questions that I have often received is the most general and difficult one: how are we doing in terms of official bilingualism? The answer is often unsatisfying—it depends.

My seventh and latest annual report will attempt to explain that answer in some detail. The report was conceived as a summary of my seven years as the Commissioner of Official Languages. Even though my mandate has been extended for another three years, I feel this has been a useful exercise to examine the progress—or lack of progress—made during these past seven years.

As I begin my second term, I can look back on the successful outcomes that have resulted from our investigations and proactive interventions. Seven years ago my investigation into complaints by official language minority communities following the abolition of the court challenges program of Canada, and my subsequent seeking of intervenor status before the Federal Court, showed that the government had not respected its obligations under part VII of the Official Languages Act. Mobilization by these communities resulted in an out-of-court settlement that established the language rights support program.

Last year my investigation of the appointment of a unilingual Auditor General added credence to a private member's bill that was passed unanimously by Parliament and now requires all agents of Parliament to be bilingual at the moment of their appointment.

In addition, my office's collaborative work with federal institutions and the organizing committee of the Vancouver 2010 Olympic Winter Games led to a very successful event presented in both official languages, with the unfortunate exception of the cultural component of the opening ceremonies. The invaluable lessons learned from this experience resulted in the production of a practical guide to promoting official languages for any organization hosting a major sporting event in Canada.

This past summer Canada Games organizers in Sherbrooke used the guide and were clearly successful in promoting both official languages during this national event, proof that we have made great strides.

I can also point to our investigation into the decision to move the Quebec City Marine Rescue Sub-Centre to Trenton and Halifax, which led to the postponement of the move until emergency services on the St. Lawrence could be guaranteed in French.

As well, when CBC/Radio-Canada's decision to eliminate virtually all local programming at French language radio station CBEF, in Windsor, generated 876 complaints in 2009-2010, I asked the Federal Court whether I have the jurisdiction to investigate such complaints. This was confirmed by the court in a preliminary decision.

There have also been a few outcomes during my ten years that I would characterize as conspicuous failures. For example, the government failed to see the importance of having bilingual Supreme Court judges. I have given my support to Bill C-232, which sought to amend the Supreme Court of Canada Act, as I firmly believe that any litigant appearing before the Supreme Court should have the right to be heard and understood by all the judges in either official language without the aid of an interpreter.

This year, my office completed a study on the bilingual capacity of the superior court judiciary, which I presented at the Canadian Bar Association's legal conference in August. This marked the first time I worked on a joint project with my provincial counterparts in New Brunswick and Ontario. The impact of this study and its recommendations are crucial for Canadians who would use the court system. This is why we are urging the Minister of Justice to act quickly on the recommendations in the study, in close collaboration with his provincial and territorial counterparts as well as with the chief justices of the superior court.

When I first came aboard in 2006 there were some pleasant surprises. I found that there was much less resistance to the Official Languages Act inside federal institutions than I had expected, but from time to time there are incidents that indicate that officials simply don't understand what it means to have two official languages with equal status.

Last month, there was an incident here on the Hill that I must admit I found completely unacceptable. A briefing for parliamentarians on Bill C-4, the omnibus bill, was made available only in English. An MP complained, officials objected, and another MP complained that he didn't understand the conversation. The briefing was delayed for a day.

Frankly, I thought that unilingual briefings had gone the way of typewriters and that “French to follow” was a thing of the past. I thought that Parliament's unanimous decision to ensure that agents of Parliament were bilingual was recognition that Canadians, not to mention parliamentarians, have an absolute right to equal quality of service in the official language of their choice. The fact that a member of Parliament even had to ask for a briefing in French in 2013, 55 years after simultaneous interpretation was introduced into the House of Commons and 50 years after the launch of the Royal Commission on Bilingualism and Biculturalism, is deeply disappointing.

Despite these embarrassing lapses, most federal institutions and most public servants want to do the right thing. Sometimes they simply have trouble getting the tools they need and developing the reflexes to use them. To do our part, my office developed online tools for federal institutions and employees, including a self-assessment tool for managers to evaluate whether their behaviour supports the use of both languages in the workplace and, more recently, a tool to develop effective language training practices.

There have also been some disappointments. The complaints I've received, coupled with the findings of our various studies and audits, tell me that much remains to be done in order to meet the obligations and the spirit of the act fully. When federal employees provide services to Canadians, active offer is still the exception, not the rule. It also remains difficult for air travellers to be served in the official language of their choice in Canadian airports. Too often, people have to ask, and, too often when they do, they face incomprehension or delays.

In the public sector, it's quite common for leaders to say a few words in French and then continue uninterrupted in English, as if the use of French at a public event were merely a symbolic gesture rather than the natural expression of a Canadian language. Even here in Ottawa, I get the feeling that speakers, even if they are bilingual, are hesitant to speak French in public.

As well, federal institutions have been uncertain about how to take positive measures for the growth and development of official language minority communities, as required by the 2005 amendment to the Official Languages Act.

Five years ago, the government issued its Roadmap for Linguistic Duality, which expired this year and was replaced with the Roadmap for Canada's Official Languages, which runs through to 2018. During this time, we have experienced a period of financial instability, heavy federal investment in infrastructure projects, the Strategic and Operating Review and the Deficit Reduction Action Plan.

Generally speaking, official languages have not been targeted, but there has been collateral damage and unintended consequences for official languages stemming from closures and cutbacks. The result has been a subtle erosion of bilingualism through the transfer of federal offices from bilingual to unilingual regions, the reduction of language skill levels required for bilingual positions, the pressure on public servants to produce documents in English only, and the regular failure to offer a sufficient number of training programs in French.

We also see the posting of senior management positions where both official languages are described as an asset rather than a requirement, or described as a requirement and then not considered as such. The consequence of all this is a quiet undermining of the use of both languages in the workplace, and of the ability to offer services in English and French.

My work over the past seven years has shown me how much leadership matters in federal institutions. As commissioner, I will continue to stress the importance of second language learning, whether in our universities or in the public service, and I will continue to position the use of both official languages as a key leadership competency.

What lies ahead in the field of official languages? What challenges will need to be addressed over the next three years of my mandate?

Immigration and the demographic change it brings are critical issues for minority-language communities and for the country.

Social media will continue to transform the way that government deals with citizens. Essentially, the public expectation for an immediate response in either official language is greater than ever. Social media represent both significant challenges and tremendous opportunities in terms of language policy.

We know the Pan American Games will take place in Toronto in the summer of 2015, as well as a series of major anniversary events leading up to the 150th anniversary of Confederation in 2017. This is an opportunity for renewed engagement and leadership from the federal government. Throughout the planning stages and delivery of these events, it will be critical to respect the needs of both official language communities.

As reflected in my annual report, I've made recommendations in the following six areas: language training in federal institutions; the “Roadmap for Canada's Official Languages 2013-2018”, specifically the need for a new management and accountability framework; immigration policies and their impact on francophone minority communities; initiatives to raise the level of bilingualism among Canadians and reverse the decline in bilingualism among anglophones; the bilingual capacity of our superior court judiciary; and the impact of budget cuts on federal institutions' abilities to respect their obligations.

I believe we're now past the point where Canadians are shocked to hear the other language. This became quite evident to me this summer at the Canada Games in Sherbrooke. Both languages were used interchangeably during the opening ceremonies and elicited similar responses from those in attendance. Our official languages are a defining characteristic of our Canadian identity. We need to feel that both languages belong to us and are part of our sense of national identity, even if we don't speak one of them.

One challenge that remains, I feel, is for all of us to embrace fully linguistic duality as a core Canadian value, no matter what language we speak. As the committee begins a new session, it will no doubt be considering where to focus its work. I have raised a number of issues, including those areas where I made recommendations. I hope the committee finds this useful in determining which topics are deserving of its attention.

On that note, Mr. Chair, I will conclude my remarks and be pleased to answer any questions you and your colleagues may have.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Michael Chong

Thank you, Mr. Fraser.

Before we move to questions and comments, Mr. Godin will give notice of three motions.

Mr. Godin, you have the floor.

3:40 p.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to give notice of the following motions.

The first motion reads as follows:

That the Committee invite the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans to update the Committee on the government's intentions concerning the Quebec City Marine Rescue Sub-Centre before Wednesday, December 11, 2013.

This motion has been tabled in both official languages.

The second motion, Mr. Chair, reads as follows:

That the Committee invite the President and CEO of CBC/Radio-Canada, Hubert T. Lacroix, to appear before the Committee before mid-February 2014, for a televised meeting lasting 2 hours.

The third motion reads as follows:

That the Committee invite the Minister of Justice to appear before the Committee and explain his department's strategy to implement the recommendations made by the Commissioner of Official Languages in his report on access to justice in both official languages before mid-February 2014.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Michael Chong

Thank you for your notice of motion, Mr. Godin.

You now have the floor to ask questions or make comments.

3:45 p.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to welcome our commissioner, Mr. Graham Fraser, and his team.

I will start right off with my questions.

One thing concerns me, Mr. Commissioner. First of all, your report is fairly harsh toward the government. You said that things are not going all that well. I travel all across Canada, I meet people in minority communities and I see, as you do, that things are not going all that well. I will mention a few examples.

Let's talk about the issue of search and rescue. As you heard, we tabled a motion because the government has always refused that this committee do a study and bring experts. We are talking about people's lives at sea. You did a report on the subject, you made recommendations. For the last two years or so, the subject has been under discussion. You had to ensure there was a follow-up. The government tossed you a hot potato, it said that it would wait for the commissioner to say when things would be okay over there. If something happens, they will say it is the commissioner's fault because he said that things were okay. I would not want to be in your shoes.

I would like to know what your preliminary conclusions were. When will you make the full findings of this report available? You know what concerns me. It has been two years and the government has still not found people who are competent in both official languages to go work in Trenton or Halifax. I don't know if you are concerned, but I would be in your place. You must wonder if you will be held responsible if you ever give your approval, if three people quit their jobs at the same time and someone facing problems at sea hears the phrase: “I don't speak French.” All of the transfers from Moncton to Halifax and all of the government offices in Halifax are already having problems. It has been two years and they still have not found replacements for those people.

I would like to hear your opinion on the subject, Mr. Fraser.

3:45 p.m.

Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Graham Fraser

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

As far as our follow-up is concerned, the report from the study is under way. I thought it was interesting that the government said it would not make the change before receiving my approval. I don't give my approval that way, I don't approve any action. If the government had a structure in place, I would see how it worked afterwards. If the government waits for my approval for the move, it will have to wait a long time. That is not how the commissioner's office works.

Did they ask for our approval before moving the Canadian Tourism Commission to Vancouver? They did not ask us at all. If they had, we would have answered that that is not our way of doing things. We would have told the government to do what it had decided to do, and if it was determined to make that structural change, something which could happen to any institution, we would have examined the situation afterwards. If we receive complaints, we will look into it and check how things are working.

3:45 p.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

Mr. Commissioner, are you not concerned? It has been two years and they have not been able to replace these people. Are you not afraid that, when these people are replaced, the new people in the job will say “I don't speak French”, causing someone to die at sea? Are you not concerned about that?

3:45 p.m.

Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Graham Fraser

The transfer hasn't been done. The Quebec marine centre is still running, as far as I know.

I've been very clear: it is absolutely imperative to ensure at all times the safety at sea of sailors, passengers vessels, and sailboats on the seaway. The bar is fairly high, but it has to be if we want to ensure the health and safety of those who use the St. Lawrence River and Gulf.

3:45 p.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

Very well, Mr. Fraser, but incidents occurred in Neguac, in New Brunswick. Three people lost their lives. Six calls were made to the Halifax Centre, but no one spoke French. You're aware of this. Six calls were made before a francophone could be reached. We can see that it's not working in Halifax, and it's not working any better in Trenton.

The other issue is that of the changes made by the federal government to how public services are offered. In British Columbia, you did a study. You made recommendations and you asked the government to respond to them by October 31. You wanted to know what was going to be done. Service Canada sent it to a third party, and the law was not obeyed in that province. What do you intend to do? It's now November 27, and members of British Columbia's minority community were forced to drag the government to court in order to be served in their language of choice. Are you going to send a representative to the court?

3:50 p.m.

Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Graham Fraser

That's an option we're considering. I don't believe that a final decision has yet been made in this case.

I will ask Ms. Tremblay to answer this question.

3:50 p.m.

Johane Tremblay Director and General Counsel, Legal Affairs Branch, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Right now, we're following up on the recommendations. After that follow-up is done, conclusions and findings will be made, and the decision will be made to get involved or not in this legal recourse. Currently, the commissioner is following up the implementation of the final report recommendations.

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

Were recommendations made? Did the government respond to your recommendations? You gave it until October 31 to respond. If the response is positive, why are British Columbian citizens being forced to go to court?

3:50 p.m.

Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Graham Fraser

I haven't heard them. We're doing a follow-up now. I can't comment until the follow-up is done. We need to know the government's response to our recommendations.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Michael Chong

Thank you, Mr. Godin and Mr. Fraser.

Mr. Gourde, you have the floor.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Jacques Gourde Conservative Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the witnesses for being here with us.

I would also like to thank the commissioner for being in Quebec during the Vanier Cup, last Saturday. I believe that you gave an award. I was in attendance. I noticed that the commentator spoke in both official languages, English and French. When the referees made their decisions, we heard them in both languages.

Have you noticed other efforts that have been made? Quebec City is French-speaking, but a great deal of effort was made, in my opinion, so that all of the English-speaking visitors could understand what was going on that very splendid day.

3:50 p.m.

Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Graham Fraser

Indeed, I found that the Vanier Cup's presentation was impressive in many respects.

First of all, people attended the game, even though there was practically a snow storm going on. It was quite cold indeed. There were a strong wind coming directly out of Labrador. The presentation and organization of this interuniversity sport was done in order to carefully respect bilingualism. That impressed me as well.

I also had the opportunity to give the Promotion of Linguistic Duality Award of Excellence to Justin Morrow, a former player for the Rouge et Or team, who comes from a small town in southeastern Ontario. When he came to Laval University, he was a unilingual anglophone, spoke only English, but he learned French. He earned his degree in administration and started an NGO called Canadian Youth for French. It is because of his example, of his experience, and the creation of this organization that he was given this award, which I was able to give to him at halftime.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Jacques Gourde Conservative Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC

Every Canada-wide university initiative, be it in sports or education, is really a source of hope for the future. Are there other ways to support them and help them promote both of our national languages?

3:50 p.m.

Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Graham Fraser

I am constantly impressed by the commitment of the rector of Laval University, Denis Brière, and the support that the university gives to learning French. For years, there have been programs that teach French. There's also the Molson Foundation's Francophone Immersion Bursaries for anglophone students who want to study French at Laval University. I've been involved in awarding this bursary over the last five years, I think. It's a sign of the commitment of both the universities and the Molson Foundation, who are working together actively to support linguistic duality.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Jacques Gourde Conservative Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC

If you will allow it, I'd like to come back to your report, and I will ask you a more technical question.

You pointed out that the roadmap no longer includes any funding for the coordination functions lead by the Treasury Board Secretariat and the Department of Canadian Heritage. However, the department responsible for official languages indicated to you that the funding had not changed. Why did you not subsequently change your report?

3:55 p.m.

Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Graham Fraser

The roadmap makes no mention of the funding aspect. However, I believe that it is important to have that coordination component.

Mr. Giguère will probably be able to give you more details on that part of our recommendation.

3:55 p.m.

Sylvain Giguère Assistant Commissioner, Policy and Communications Branch, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Indeed, as Mr. Fraser said, there was no clear indication that money was included in the roadmap. We were told afterwards that money had been earmarked for it by the departments. However, we don't have access to those numbers.

And so, we see a roadmap that doesn't give any more money for that purpose, and we want the money to continue to be made available, that's all.

3:55 p.m.

Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Graham Fraser

The fact that it's not indicated means that it's harder for us to follow the flow of those expenditures. When it disappears into a department's administration, it becomes harder to track the expenditure.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Jacques Gourde Conservative Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC

Are you satisfied with the answer provided?

3:55 p.m.

Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Graham Fraser

We would still like to see how that is working. It is one element among others. The structural changes and the integration of certain functions within the department make it more difficult to follow up.

For example, if we look at language training, in the past, that was done by the Canada School of Public Service. More recently, that responsibility has been transferred to the departments, and within the departments, to managers.

Personally, I have been careful to not criticize this move, but it's much harder to follow up on the results of language training when it is spread out within the departments. By the same token, it is more difficult to follow up on how this is being coordinated when the numbers cannot be found in the documents within the roadmap.