Official Languages Committee on Oct. 30th, 2023

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Wait a minute, please.

Mr. Iacono, I think that Mr. Brock has done that properly. Personally, I heard him do it, and that is entirely to his credit. We were talking about the first point of order that was raised, concerning the content of the questions Mr. Brock wanted to ask.

However, you are telling me, Mr. Godin, that you have your own point of order.

Mr. Brock, do you also have a point of order, or do you simply want to comment on the first point of order?

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I want to speak to both, Mr. Chair.

The chair gave me the floor. Before I uttered two words, I was interrupted by Mr. Iacono on another point of order. I don't know what that point of order was, but I had the floor.

If I have the floor, I would like to continue, Chair. My thoughts are these. Mr. Iacono spoke about professional courtesy. I want to comment on those words, “professional courtesy”, because I think it's important for all of us to reflect on what has happened over the last week.

Last Monday, the commissioner was scheduled to testify at not one, but two committees, here at official languages and also at the ethics committee. He chose to attend the ethics committee, because this is a pressing issue. It's a pressing issue for all Canadians as to why it took as long as it did for the RCMP to come to the conclusion that the investigation into criminality with respect to the Prime Minister's handling of the SNC-Lavalin affair would not result in criminal charges. He was expected to testify—

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Point of order.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

I have a point of order also.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I have the floor, Mr. Iacono.

I have the floor, Mr. Samson.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Wait a minute, Mr. Brock.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

If Mr. Brock is incapable of pronouncing my surname correctly, he should not pronounce it.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Chair, If you want my point of view...

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Mr. Brock, I am listening to your explanation. I am going to come back to you, but I have to rule on the points of order, in order. I am not convinced that your point of order relates to what we are discussing. It is not the committee's job to pass judgment on what happened elsewhere, in another committee or at another time.

Mr. Godin, you have the floor.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Chair, first, I would like to apologize to the Commissioner for the flap the Liberals have caused because they do not want to allow us to have a discussion with you. It is unacceptable.

When Mr. Iacono talks about courtesy, I think he should show some by accepting my colleague's apology and moving on to something else. Everything was going fine up to now. What I feel, and I am expressing this, Mr. Chair...

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

What is your point of order, Mr. Godin?

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

In fact, I just wanted to give the floor back to Mr. Brock so we could continue, and to ask my colleagues opposite to stop filibustering.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Mr. Samson, you have the floor.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

I don't think the member in question can answer for the Commissioner. He made a comment that I find very problematic. He said that the Commissioner himself had chosen last week to participate in the meeting of the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics rather than come to our committee meeting because, in his words, it was more urgent.

I would like the Commissioner to confirm what the member said and say that the reason why he refused to appear before our committee is that he thinks the Official Languages Act and the need to comply with it are less important to him.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Mr. Iacono, you have the floor.

Oh, I'm sorry, Madame Goodridge. I missed you. Go ahead.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Thank you.

I very much appreciate the fact that this has devolved into chaos, because the Liberals don't want to hear what Mr. Brock is trying to ask and how he is framing his questions. I think it's very unfortunate that we have devolved into a space where we are just having points of order on points of order.

I will remind you, Mr. Chair, that you cannot actually have a point of order on a point of order. There can be conversation on a point of order, and then you can rule on it, or you can set it aside, but very clearly, in House of Commons Procedure and Practice.... What this has devolved into is not how I've seen this committee operate up to this point in time.

I would request very respectfully that we get back to the conversation at hand so that we can ask questions. I have questions. I know other colleagues have questions. This is a very important topic on bilingualism in the RCMP. Frankly, I did not hear Mr. Brock in any way, shape or form say that somehow official languages was less important than ethics. He just keeps getting interrupted before he can even get to his point.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Ms. Goodridge.

It's much appreciated.

The Standing Committee on Official Languages is not used to having repeated points of order. I love this committee because, in general, it is not very political or politicized.

Mr. Brock, you are asking us for a chance to ask your question about today's study, so I am giving you the floor. However, you have heard everyone state their opinions about what you are going to say. I will see where you are going and I will stop you immediately if you are not on the right track.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

With respect, I wanted to provide a response to the number of interventions from the Liberals objecting to my presence and how I framed a question, which wasn't even framed, because I didn't have the opportunity to frame it. Somehow I'm being denied the opportunity.... I wanted to provide context, but I was objected to. On the last occasion in which I tried to provide context, we talked about professional courtesy.

The RCMP commissioner attended last Monday at the ethics committee and was prepared to comment on the SNC investigation. The Liberals, together with the NDP, before we even heard the statement of the RCMP commissioner, shamefully shut down the committee.

We talk about professional courtesy, Chair. It goes both ways.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Mr. Brock, before you continue, your time is running. I am putting back the clock.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

All right.

Commissioner, going back to the original line of questioning, although no Prime Minister in the history of this country has ever been charged with and/or convicted of a criminal offence, if your service had reasonable and probable grounds to believe that a criminal offence had been committed, such as obstruction of justice—

[An hon. member]

Point of order.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Again, [Technical difficulty—Editor] the opportunity of framing a question, now for the second time by the Liberals.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Mr. Brock, forget the Liberals, the NDP, the Bloc or whatever. For now, the point of order is clear. You know exactly what the point of order was and why you're here today, why this committee is sitting today in front of these witnesses. It is to ask them questions concerning the present study, which is not where you're going at all.

I tend to agree with what I'm hearing in terms of points of order. You're not—