Official Languages Committee on Oct. 30th, 2023

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Right.

The other thing is training. Before, there might have been training in French. Now, there no longer is. Training is now bilingual, and that has been criticized.

Stéphanie Chouinard, a political scientist at the Military College of Canada, said that in bilingual situations, francophones are always at a disadvantage, as we can see everywhere. Can you therefore commit to going back to having training in French?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

Yes, it is very important to go back to having training in French. We have to offer training in the language chosen by the individual.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I am not talking about bilingual training, here.

[Commr Michael Duheme]

Yes, we are talking about training in French. In fact, we are increasing the number of francophone personnel at Depot. Historically, throughout the organization, courses in French have always presented a challenge, one that we want to meet today.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

If there is no training in French for francophones, there will be no respect for French. I have spoken with Roméo Dallaire, who told me it was the same in the army: if a unit did not have 80 to 90% francophone members, English was the language that dominated.

[Commr Michael Duheme]

When I was in Manitoba, I visited the St‑Pierre‑Jolys detachment and that was the first time I encountered a detachment where the conversation took place entirely in French.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Bravo!

That is all the time we have, Mr. Beaulieu.

We will now go to Manitoba.

Ms. Ashton, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First, Commissioner, we appreciate your promise to provide us with the exact number of people who do not meet the language requirements of their position. Because that had been raised by one of my colleagues, we were disappointed by the news, as published in the media, that you could not do that for confidentiality reasons. I am glad you recognize how essential it is to have that information.

Could you tell us the percentage of bilingual positions, unilingual French positions and unilingual English positions in the RCMP?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

I am going to ask Ms. Huggins to help me with some of the percentages. In the RCMP, 87.5% of the individuals who have a bilingual position meet the language criteria. That represents about 652 positions.

I don't know whether we have the statistics for unilingual positions, so I am going to ask Ms. Huggins. However, if we do not have the answer now, I will be glad to provide that information later.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Ms. Ashton, I am stopping the clock for long enough to remind the witnesses that they can submit any additional information to our clerk, who will forward it to the committee members.

[Commr Michael Duheme]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Ms. Ashton, you may continue.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you. Yes, we would like to receive that information.

As the member of Parliament for northern Manitoba, I'm very concerned about the temporary closures of RCMP detachments here in our region, in Snow Lake and in Cranberry Portage. Communities in our region fear that these will be permanent closures.

In response, the RCMP has made reference to challenges when it comes to recruitment.

We are hearing about challenges relating to francophone and bilingual positions now. This is not the fault of Canadians who expect to receive services from the RCMP. The RCMP has an obligation to provide those services and to follow the laws, in this case the Official Languages Act.

Given that you have referred to the problems involved in recruiting, what are you doing in that regard and what do you need from the federal government in order to find solutions that apply to our communities in northern Manitoba and communities that depend on bilingual or francophone services?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

Mr. Chair, since the question seems to relate mainly to recruiting, I can assure you that we have revised the recruitment process and we have changed things.

For example, before, we required that each candidate be prepared to work anywhere in Canada. We have eliminated that requirement and we are now seeing a fairly significant increase in the number of people showing an interest in the RCMP in several regions. From now on, they know they will be able to come back to their home province if they want, or go to the province of their choice. That is a definite positive.

There will be other changes to implement the recommendations we have received from our officers or commands in each of the provinces.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Let's talk about recruitment and how to encourage people to be bilingual. Do you offer RCMP officers who want to take French courses paid leave, even if they are in a unilingual position? What kind of efforts do you make to encourage unilingual anglophones to learn French?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

There are several aspects to the question of bilingualism on the part of our employees. First, a person who wants to advance and access certain positions in the organization has to learn French, because French opens doors for them. Second, there are several programs for learning French. When sector demands require it, we can ask an officer to go to school eight hours a day, in training, to learn French. That is still done, and you heard Ms. Huggins, for example, talk about our school at Depot, where francophones arrive 13 weeks before their police training to learn English.

We have a number of incentives, as well as a program that enables people who wish to take training at their expense to get a refund, just by filling out a form.

To go back to Ms. Huggins' comments on the subject of bilingualism, when someone holds a bilingual position, they receive a bilingualism bonus that is attached to the position. I think there are a lot of incentives, including promotion, the financial aspect, and learning a second language itself.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

We understand that a program is offered to francophones who want to learn or improve their English. However, to go back to the second part of my question, can you tell us how many anglophones are now taking French courses, or take them each year? If you do not have that information, could you send it to us as soon as possible?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

We are going to check that and we undertake to send you those figures. Because I only have five seconds left, I want to point out that the budget that is assigned to language training has risen considerably: this year, we have invested $2.5 million, whereas in previous years the budget was $1.3 to $1.4 million.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Ashton.

The next two speakers will have five minutes each.

Welcome to this committee, Mr. Brock. The floor is yours for five minutes.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, Mr. Duheme and Ms. Huggins.

Commissioner, you'll agree with me that there are certain basic legal tenets in criminal law. Number one is that ignorance of the law is no excuse. No Canadian is above the law, and the Criminal Code applies to all Canadians, including members of Parliament and the Prime Minister himself.

Is that correct?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

I agree.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Notwithstanding that, no sitting Prime Minister has ever been charged criminally and/or convicted of—

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Just a minute, Mr. Brock.

Mr. Samson, you have the floor.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to point out that the questions that are being asked have nothing to do with the subject being studied at our meeting today. The motion refers to compliance by the RCMP with the Official Languages Act.

The direction the questions are taking does not correspond to the purpose of the meeting today. I submit that the questions are out of order.