Evidence of meeting #107 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was procurement.
A video is available from Parliament.
11:25 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Thank you very much.
We're going now to MP Barrett.
You have the floor for five minutes.
11:25 a.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Thanks very much.
I want to pick up where we were before.
What was the term you used for the 635, Deputy Minister?
11:25 a.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
These companies are professional services providers, TBIPS.
11:25 a.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
They're professional services providers. These 635 companies are not executing on the actual work, as you detailed in the questions from my colleague, but are middlemen. They're just finding resources and providing them.
The Auditor General found that one of them, GC Strategies, wrote an RFP for the government effectively to the exclusion of anyone else but their own company. Is that common practice?
11:25 a.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
No, it is not.
11:25 a.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
How many other occurrences of that are there in the Government of Canada?
11:25 a.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
First, when we saw this in the AG's report, we immediately picked up the phone to talk to the Auditor General, because we were obviously unaware. We have since referred the matter to the RCMP as well. I know this seems to be the door it goes to, but we take these matters very seriously.
When bid material is being prepared, as discussed yesterday in the committee, there's an attestation that says, “Have you been involved in this?” That precludes you from bidding on the work. A lot of bells and whistles are required.
In terms of your exact question, I'll ask Catherine, who has a responsibility in security, to advise us on whether she has any information on data.
11:25 a.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
I'd like to offer a precision on my question before you respond.
Of the 635 companies, the Auditor General looked at one program and found that one of the contractors was doing this. How many other companies do you suspect have engaged in this? Are you certain that there are no other occurrences of these middlemen writing their own contracts?
11:25 a.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
We can't be certain. What we do is spend time looking at fraud detection and data mining, and we are constantly auditing the various elements of them.
Catherine.
11:25 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Departmental Oversight Branch , Department of Public Works and Government Services
Thank you.
We have a framework for the prevention and detection of wrongdoing, as well as a framework for responding to certain allegations that are brought to our attention.
As soon as we receive allegations, we check whether there are any documents that can support those allegations. We then proceed to the analysis of the documents to see if there is any evidence to support the allegations.
If we get through that step, we refer the matter to the department's internal investigation team so that it can move forward and launch a formal investigation into those allegations.
If we find elements of criminality, we refer the matter to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.
11:25 a.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Thank you very much.
I will circle back to that, but I just want to revisit this with you, Deputy Minister. Specifically with respect to this issue on the request for proposal being authored by the bid winners GC Strategies, you said the matter was referred to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.
Chair, her mic didn't turn on.
11:30 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Would you repeat that? I missed that as well.
It should go on automatically.
11:30 a.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
I just want it confirmed that she said yes.
11:30 a.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Yes, it has been.
11:30 a.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Okay.
Ms. Poulin, previously you talked about being so reasonably suspicious of the conduct of GC Strategies that you were gathering evidence. Are there additional matters or additional files you have transferred to the RCMP with respect to GC Strategies?
11:30 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Departmental Oversight Branch , Department of Public Works and Government Services
We have a number of administrative reviews and investigations under way. We take seriously all the information given to us by the Canada Border Services Agency, the Office of the Auditor General and the ombudsman's report. We have analyzed all of those files. There are some preliminary investigative steps under way to validate the allegations that have been brought to our attention. As soon as we have sufficient evidence to support these allegations, we will forward the information to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, as per our process.
11:30 a.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Have you at this point transferred any information to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police as a result of those reviews?
11:30 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Departmental Oversight Branch , Department of Public Works and Government Services
We have forwarded the file that was just mentioned by the deputy minister.
We have shared our concerns with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police about the fact that a supplier was working on its own evaluation, its own statement of work.
11:30 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Thank you very much.
Next is Ms. Yip. You have the floor for five minutes, please.
11:30 a.m.
Liberal
Jean Yip Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Reza and your department, for you tremendous efforts during the pandemic.
The Auditor General looked at contracting for PPE as well as for vaccines. Can you remind us of her findings on the contracts for these two categories?
11:30 a.m.
Deputy Auditor General, Office of the Auditor General
I think I might answer that question.
In terms of the vaccines, we commented on the fact that the government was able to mobilize and get sufficient vaccines for every Canadian to be vaccinated if they wanted to be vaccinated. Our concern related to making sure of the best value. Indeed, in a highly competitive environment, we signalled that it was a challenge for the government.
Obviously, with respect to the earlier audit of personal protective equipment, or PPE, we had similar findings that the government had mobilized to make sure that the PPE needed by Canadians was available.
11:30 a.m.
Liberal
Jean Yip Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Thank you.
Ms. Reza, yesterday GC Strategies had its security certification suspended, which means it's ineligible from bidding on any contracts with security requirements. Why take this step now?
11:30 a.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Thank you very much for the question.
Catherine, would you comment?
11:30 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Departmental Oversight Branch , Department of Public Works and Government Services
As I explained earlier, we take seriously any allegations that come to our attention about our suppliers or some of their chief executives. It is important to understand that these allegations must be supported by evidence. That is how we can confirm that the chief executive officer of the organization in question or the organization itself is not in compliance with the contract security program.
From the time we started looking into the allegations that had been brought to our attention, we found sufficient evidence to establish that one of the chief executives at GC Strategies was no longer in compliance with the contract security program. The first step was to suspend the security clearance of that chief executive. From the moment that person's security clearance was suspended, GC Strategies automatically became non-compliant with the contract security program. That triggered the suspension of the company's security clearance.