Evidence of meeting #89 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was work.
A video is available from Parliament.
12:45 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Yes. Sometimes people sort of expand that category.
The increase is mainly related to modernization efforts. When we started working with the new platform, it involved technologies such as cloud computing for which we relied on consultants.
We also have to invest in labour and succession within the department. We've done some work in that area. What explains the increase is the technological shift that we've made.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Thank you.
Mr. Desjarlais, you have the floor for two and a half minutes, please. This will be your last round.
12:45 p.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
There was work conducted in the anti-racism sector by IRCC previous to the Auditor General. Do you know of a report that was commissioned by IRCC related to anti-racism within IRCC by a company called Pollara?
12:45 p.m.
Auditor General, Office of the Auditor General
No, I'm sorry; I am not aware of it.
12:45 p.m.
NDP
12:45 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Yes, and we've commissioned two.
12:45 p.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
I'll quote from that report. It says, “You just feel like, now that I’m speaking out, am I also going to be looked like as one of those angry black women for speaking up?” The report quotes several employees saying similar items. It finally concludes that racialized employees also told Pollara that they've been passed over for international assignments and professional development opportunities.
The report says that one manager claimed that their evaluation of a racialized employee was “overridden by someone above them to promote a non-racialized employee instead”. Racialized IRCC staffers told Pollara that they're marginalized in the workplace and “kept in precarious temporary contract positions disproportionately and for a long time which prevents them from advocating for their own rights” to promotion or speaking out against racist incidents.
That's deeply troubling to me. It's deeply troubling, I'm sure, to the Auditor General. It should be deeply troubling to this entire committee.
I thank the members of the opposition for continuing that line of debate. It's most important to this work. I'd encourage our Liberal colleagues to take this very important topic more seriously. It's not something worth praising.
I want to mention that there is a class action lawsuit now by the Public Service Alliance of Canada against the Government of Canada related to how they've been discriminated against in the public service. The government has responded to that by spending over $8 million defending itself.
Do you think it's time for the country—particularly your ministry—to stop defending itself against these claims and to start working with racialized workers to see that their claims are properly heard and that their work in this place is truly appreciated?
12:50 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
I absolutely think that at IRCC, we need to work very closely. That's why we commissioned the Pollara report. That's why we didn't hide away from having hard conversations and—
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Mr. Desjarlais, your time is up. I would like to hear from Ms. Fox, if that's okay.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
You know my rule is that once you're over, the witness can finish, but if you interrupt....
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
All right; that's very good.
Ms. Fox, you have the floor for a brief answer.
12:50 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
What I would say to the committee is that we work very closely with our Black employee network and our racialized network. We're hearing from them.
How concretely did that change how we make our decisions? One, our executive committee table has become more diverse over the last year. That is a deliberate action to make a representation shift at the heart of the department.
Two, w empowered the networks that we have to give them a voice and funding so that they can advocate different things, such as mentorship programs, which we're supporting.
Three, we created an equity secretariat that has the anti-racism task force, and we listened to our employees to create an ombudsperson within the department.
Four, I think we need to spend a lot of time with middle managers. The direct environment of employees is what exactly impacts them every single day in Canada and abroad.
These are some of the measures we're putting in place.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Thank you very much.
We're turning now to Mr. Kmiec for five minutes. You'll be the last speaker for the Conservative side.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB
Thank you, Chair.
We've spoken about capacity. Several members have mentioned that.
Mr. Blois brought up Ukrainians. I want to bring up CUAET visa holders. There were over a million applications, and over 900,000 were approved. It's a big source of pressure for the department. Many of those people then want to apply for PR through different streams. They'd be affected through all of the programs that the AG has reviewed.
In the Yeates report, though, he found—it's on page 11—that there was an internal expectation that only 10,000 individuals would then seek permanent immigration to Canada through a PR program. Is that 10,000 correct? Was that the thinking of the department?
12:50 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Yes, those were probably the assumptions made at the time, since we did not know how long the conflict between Russia and Ukraine would last or what people's appetite to go to other places such as Poland might be. I think that was the beginning of the work.
I think that work continues, and right now we've launched the PR pathway for 10,000 for family and we're looking at how we will manage the balance of the program going forward.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB
According to Pathfinders for Ukraine, 98% of them intend to stay in Canada.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB
What are you going to do for the rest of them? How can we make sure that these Ukrainians, who have fled the war and who have expressed an interest, according to Pathfinders, in staying in Canada, can stay? About 80% of them are happy, and 76% of them are working. They want to contribute, so what's the plan to make sure they don't run into the same troubles as those in all of the PR programs that aren't working very well? What's the plan to ensure that these people won't be impacted?