Public Safety Committee on May 29th, 2006

[Renée Collette]

It does happen, yes.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Mr. Head, in terms of the present population, I didn't catch this—you may have said it before I came in. Other than the odd person moving in and out, are there any substantial vacancies in our federal prisons?

[Don Head]

Do you mean in terms of cell capacity, sir?

[Comartin]

Yes.

[Don Head]

Yes, currently we are experiencing empty beds at the minimum security level, primarily because the tools we are currently using to assess the security level and risk level of individuals are indicating there's not the right type of individual to go to minimum security.

We are experiencing some issues regarding double-bunking at the higher security levels. In our assessment units, we have double-bunking going on; in some areas of the maximum security facilities we have some double-bunking; primarily it's in medium security that there's double-bunking.

But empty space is basically in the minimum security facilities across the country.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

In terms of minimum security, is the use of the conditional sentence having some impact on that, or is it simply because of the classification?

[Don Head]

There is speculation that since the introduction of conditional sentences in the Criminal Code, the types of individuals that would have come into the federal system years ago and occupied the minimum-security beds are the types of individuals who now are getting a conditional sentence or some sentence other than the federal term.

At this point in time, that's just speculation. One of the things we discuss when the provincial, territorial, and federal heads of corrections get together is how the various pieces of legislation and changes to the Criminal Code have had an impact on populations at all three jurisdiction levels.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

As I'm sure you're aware, the current government has before it a number of proposals. One bill, currently before the House after first reading, would increase the mandatory minimum sentences, which, from everything I can see, would have a significant impact on the capacity you'd need to respond to.

First of all, do you agree with that statement? Second, if you do, have you begun to do any analysis of how many additional beds you're going to need if Bill C-10 alone, the mandatory minimum sentences provision, goes through?

[Don Head]

As with any proposed bill that goes through the House, we do analysis to determine the potential impacts, knowing that the analysis will be good only until the bill becomes an act, or brings about a change. Then we'll know what the potential final impact is.

When we look at this, we also have to look at the timing of the implementation and how quickly it would be taken up in the courts. There are many different variables and many different factors. So based on various different scenarios, we've looked at a range of different numbers and potential impacts to try to get at least an estimate of the impact of any changes that may be coming.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Do you have a cost range for Bill C-10 mandatory minimum sentences--pretty well all related to gun crimes--that you can give us?

[Don Head]

When we first looked at it going out over a five-to-ten-year period, we estimated that there would be an increase of about 200 to 400 individuals coming into the system. But the initial assessment was based on a set of assumptions different from those in the current bill. So we're currently looking at what the final number will be if that bill is maintained as is. Our initial assessment, based on some earlier speculation, put the numbers around 200 to 400.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

How much longer will it be before you complete the assessment specifically on this legislation?

[Don Head]

I would imagine that it will be completed within the next few weeks--just so we have a good sense of where we are with this piece--and then we'll be able to assess implications if changes come up through debate.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

When that assessment is completed, will you provide a copy of it to the chair of this committee?

[Don Head]

I assume we will, yes.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Similarly, we're hearing about other legislation coming, which would increase penalties for drug crimes and change the parole system. Have you done any assessment in those two areas?

[Don Head]

Up until this point we've looked only at Bill C-10.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

If those come forward as bills, you'll do a similar assessment at that time?

[Don Head]

Exactly. Once we get a better idea of what the planning assumptions are, then we can do our initial assessments.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

How long from the time you get a copy of the bill does it usually take you to do that assessment?

[Don Head]

It can take anywhere from two to four weeks. It depends on the complications, implications, and overlap with other sentences. Some changes are relatively straightforward, and it just takes pure extrapolation to determine what the number would be. For others, though, we have to go back and say, okay, if that happens there, we're going to have to discount something else that might have occurred, and work it through. That's usually when it takes more than a couple of weeks to do.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Last question, Mr. Comartin.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Does the assessment include both capital expenditures as well as operational?

[Don Head]

Yes, it does.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

We'll move over to the government side now for seven minutes.

Mr. Hawn.