Evidence of meeting #43 for Public Safety and National Security in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was provincial.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:45 a.m.
S/Insp Steve Izzett
My officers assigned to witness protection.
11:45 a.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
So you've got an officer out on the street coming across this who believes this needs assistance, and that officer calls in to somebody who's responsible to you and they make that decision?
11:45 a.m.
S/Insp Steve Izzett
They make that decision on the spot.
11:45 a.m.
S/Insp Steve Izzett
No. As I've mentioned, we have an agreement that in the first instance, where the safety of a witness is potentially in peril and there is immediate assistance required, we can temporarily relocate them to a hotel or some other location that we, the police, deem to be safe, and the Ministry of the Attorney General will honour that expenditure even if the individual is not later accepted into the program.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Do you know how much the province pays for the witness protection program in Ontario? And I'm not looking for the cost of the officers at the municipal level or I guess at the OPP level.
11:50 a.m.
S/Insp Steve Izzett
The cost in the province of Ontario ranges between $500,000 and $800,000 a year to run the program. That's for the entire province.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
11:50 a.m.
S/Insp Steve Izzett
Yes.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Superintendent Schumacher, do you know how much the Province of Manitoba is spending?
11:50 a.m.
Supt Gordon B. Schumacher
I believe the budget they have is $400,000 a year.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Staff Inspector, when you hear those two figures, and the population of Ontario being about 11 or 12 times that of Manitoba, maybe a bit more than that, the figures don't seem to jibe. Why would Manitoba be spending that much and Ontario that little, if I can put it in that context?
11:50 a.m.
S/Insp Steve Izzett
Comparatively, I cannot answer that question, simply because I don't know to what extent the level of protection is provided and what steps are taken. I'd like to claim that it's just a matter of the frugal nature of the--
11:50 a.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
11:50 a.m.
S/Insp Steve Izzett
At this point, I don't know what the difference is between the two programs. I can tell you that the average cost per witness is between $20,000 and $40,000 with the Ministry of the Attorney General.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Going back to the issue of terminating someone, you made the point that subsequent involvement, post-testimony, in criminal activity...you left us with the impression that it was automatic that they were terminated from the program. Is it automatic, or is there a decision made? Who makes the decision if there is a decision?
11:50 a.m.
S/Insp Steve Izzett
It's actually contained in the rules and acknowledged by the individual who signs the rules.
11:50 a.m.
S/Insp Steve Izzett
Yes, these are the rules I can't show you. There are a number of criteria. One says they must follow all the security practices and they'll be governed by those actions until advised by the police that it's no longer necessary to follow them.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Staff Inspector, can you address your comments to how it occurs? Do you make that decision?
11:50 a.m.
S/Insp Steve Izzett
No. That would be a decision through consultation. Obviously, if somebody's involved in some criminal activity, we would consult with the ministry and that decision would be made by the ministry upon our advice. But I can tell you, in the last 10 years, because I checked before coming here, we've only had five in the Toronto Police Service who we found it necessary to remove from the program.
11:50 a.m.
S/Insp Steve Izzett
I can't specifically answer as to what the reasons are. But I would say that for the most part, yes, that would be the reason.