Evidence of meeting #1 for Public Safety and National Security in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was tuesday.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:05 a.m.
The Clerk of the Committee Mr. Roger Préfontaine
Honourable members, I see a quorum.
Your first duty is to elect a chair. We can now proceed to the election of the chair. I am ready to receive motions to that effect.
Mr. Holland.
9:05 a.m.
Liberal
Mark Holland Liberal Ajax—Pickering, ON
I'll nominate the honourable Garry Breitkreuz--honourable perhaps not in title but in character.
9:05 a.m.
The Clerk
It has been moved by Mark Holland that Garry Breitkreuz be elected as chair.
Monsieur Ménard.
9:05 a.m.
The Clerk
It is seconded by Mr. Ménard.
Are there any further motions? There being no further motions, I declare Mr. Breitkreuz duly elected chair of the committee.
Before inviting the chair to take the chair, if the committee wishes, we will now proceed to the election of vice-chair.
9:05 a.m.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
Mr. Clerk, I would so wish that we do that, and I would nominate Mark Holland as vice-chair.
9:05 a.m.
The Clerk
It has been moved by Mr. MacKenzie that Mark Holland be elected first vice-chair of the committee.
9:05 a.m.
Conservative
9:05 a.m.
The Clerk
Seconded by Mr. Norlock.
Are there any further motions for the election of the first vice-chair? There being no other motions, I declare Mr. Holland duly elected first vice-chair of the committee.
We will now proceed to the election of the second vice-chair, who must be a member of the opposition.
Monsieur Ménard.
9:05 a.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
I would like to nominate Mr. Jack Harris as second vice-chair.
9:05 a.m.
The Clerk
Mr. Ménard is seconded by Mr. Holland.
Are there any further nominations for second vice-chair?
There being no further motions, I declare Mr. Jack Harris duly elected second vice-chair of the committee. Congratulations.
I would personally like to congratulate our new chair and invite him to take the chair.
9:05 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Garry Breitkreuz
Thank you very much, Roger. I appreciate the support of the members of the committee and I look forward to working with all of you. This has been a very interesting committee and we have accomplished a lot of work in the past, and I look forward to working with you all. Those of you who have been here before know that I try to be as non-partisan as possible, and if any of you ever have any comments on how things are going at the committee, I would appreciate any feedback. You can do that privately or on the record, I suppose, because I want to do as good job as I am capable of doing at this committee.
So I appreciate your support and look forward to working with you.
The only thing on the agenda is the election of the chair and the two vice-chairs. However, if you wish, and if somebody would like to make a motion to that effect, we could adopt our routine motions. That's usually the first item of business we conduct at this committee. I would propose that we keep the same routine motions as we had previously, but that's completely up to you. If anybody would like to make any comments or suggest that we adopt them all, or if you want to go through them one by one....
First of all, do you wish to do routine motions today? What's the will of the committee?
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
Mark Holland Liberal Ajax—Pickering, ON
Mr. Chair, I think it's wise to adopt the routine motions today. I think they've served the committee well in the past and could be adopted as is. I know some committees have taken a lot of time to change them in very slight ways. I think it would be better if we could just get on with the work of the committee and work with what has worked previously.
9:10 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Garry Breitkreuz
I think it would be wise to just review them briefly before we adopt them.
Mr. MacKenzie.
9:10 a.m.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
I would move the adoption of the routine motions as distributed by the clerk.
9:10 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Garry Breitkreuz
Thank you very much, Mr. Harris.
Is there any discussion?
Monsieur Ménard.
9:10 a.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
Previous members of this committee know that I disagree with the time allotted to question witnesses. My position has not changed, but I am sure that, if I resubmitted the same motions that I made in 2004 and 2006, they would suffer the same fate. I hope that that the consequences will also be the same; that is, in order to convince us to agree to these motions about the time allocated for questions as presented, the chair assured us that he would personally rein in witnesses who, in order to avoid awkward questions from committee members, give never-ending answers that often verge on being out of order.
Perhaps one day, we might want to take a look at the way in which all committees operate. I recognize that there are advantages in having our rules similar to other committees. I feel sure that, with the same chair, there would be the same approach. I recognize that he has conducted the debates with great impartiality and that he is aware of the tactics that some witnesses can use.
I know whereof I speak; these tactics have been widely used, and widely broadcast and published, in Quebec when committees were looking into the sponsorship scandal. I also pointed out that some officials—who shall remain nameless and who no longer hold office anyway—had the habit of starting right into a speech after the first question they were asked so that almost all the allotted time was used up.
So I suggested that the time for questions to witnesses be cut in half, but that the time should only be for asking the questions, not for listening to the answers. I gather that I was considered revolutionary at the time.
To avoid useless discussion, I am counting on the same understanding from the chair. Given that he is aware of the situation himself, I imagine that he will continue to conduct the debates in this way and that he will intervene when a witness starts to use the tactic unreasonably.
So I will not suggest an amendment.
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Garry Breitkreuz
I take to heart what you have said, sir, and ask for your help. If you feel that the witness is intentionally trying to avoid the questions of the committee, you can raise a point of order. It's sometimes a difficult thing to judge whether the information that is being given is information the committee would really like to receive, or whether the witness is simply speaking to avoid some of the issues we may wish to raise. I always welcome a point of order if you feel that the witness is abusing his privilege of speaking first.
Are there any other comments?
Mr. Harris.
9:15 a.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I have a follow-up on Mr. Ménard's point. I'm obviously new to this committee, but I note that the rule says “at the discretion of the chair”. So there is some discretion of the chair in handling witnesses, and that may be broad enough for this type of situation.
If it turns out to be problematic--and Mr. Ménard has been persistent for a couple of years in this rule--is there anything to stop this committee from changing the routine motion at some point in the year, or is it something that is adopted for the entire session?
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Garry Breitkreuz
We can change anything throughout the year, but it is very unusual to do that. Usually when we adopt these we try to live with them throughout the session of Parliament, but it is possible to change them if we so wish.
9:15 a.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
I gather from your comments and the ability to exercise discretion that there probably won't be any need to do that.
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Garry Breitkreuz
We haven't had a problem in the past, but it's almost impossible to predict what may happen in this session.
Are there any other comments?
I see no more comments to be made. Are you willing to adopt all the routine motions you have before you?
(Motions agreed to)
I would like to invite Lyne and Tania to our table. Lyne and Tania are our Library of Parliament analysts. Lyne has been with this committee for quite some time and has done invaluable service. We have worked with Lyne before and really appreciate the support she gives us at this committee. Welcome. We look forward to working with you again.
Do you have any comments?
