Evidence of meeting #17 for Public Safety and National Security in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was program.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:30 a.m.
Deputy Commissioner, Transformation and Renewal Team, Correctional Service of Canada
Without doubt an influx of resources that continues in the program area would be beneficial. We have invested close to $47 million in programming in the last couple of years through some program strategic reinvestment opportunities we have undertaken.
I mentioned earlier to one of your colleagues an integrated program model through which we're looking to create some levels of efficiencies that can move us toward that goal.
11:35 a.m.
Deputy Commissioner, Transformation and Renewal Team, Correctional Service of Canada
In the program area, sure we could.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC
My other question relates to the fact that our Canadian programs are well regarded outside the country and are adopted by other countries. First of all, that is wonderful news. But I'm wondering how we became leaders in this area. Historically, how did this evolve to the point that we're internationally recognized for our drug treatment program?
11:35 a.m.
Deputy Commissioner, Transformation and Renewal Team, Correctional Service of Canada
In the correctional environment, there is no question about looking at what contributes to public safety results, which is the second part of our mandate, of course: the rehabilitative aspects of inmates. Through the program development process, what occurred was a strong emphasis on research-based empirical evidence, material that can demonstrate a capability to show results, as was mentioned before. When you can demonstrate success through a results orientation with empirical evidence behind you, other correctional jurisdictions stand up and look at that.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC
We put an emphasis on evidence-based policies going back—what—15 or 20 years?
11:35 a.m.
Deputy Commissioner, Transformation and Renewal Team, Correctional Service of Canada
Yes, there's a little bit of that, yes.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
11:35 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
You made your point, Mr. Scarpaleggia. You have another 30 seconds if you want it.
11:35 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
I'll maybe just jump in here.
I want to go back to what Mr. Scarpaleggia asked originally about methadone. This is just so we all get a little better understanding. We know that if someone comes in with a heroin addiction, methadone can help with some of the side effects of withdrawal and other things. You said that when people come in, they're given a medical. Is there a urinalysis? Is there a blood test? Why don't we know how many are addicted or how many have heroin in their bodies?
11:35 a.m.
Deputy Commissioner, Transformation and Renewal Team, Correctional Service of Canada
There's a comprehensive medical assessment done. There isn't an automatic blood test to test for opiate use at intake. There is a urinalysis program that is random. Basically, if your name comes up, you will be tested randomly. We also have--
11:35 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Is it upon entry? Is it random upon entry, or is it compulsory?
11:35 a.m.
Deputy Commissioner, Transformation and Renewal Team, Correctional Service of Canada
No, there's a random urinalysis test if your name comes up. It's random. It's not compulsory to have urinalysis testing upon admission.
11:35 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Then you don't know for certain. If people come and say that they have a heroin addiction, do you immediately put them on methadone if they want it? Or do you have to have proof that they have a heroin addiction?
December 6th, 2011 / 11:35 a.m.
Deputy Commissioner, Transformation and Renewal Team, Correctional Service of Canada
There would be proof. As I mentioned before, that would go into the medical community. They would do all the requisite tests to determine the need, the dosage, and all those particular elements.
11:35 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Is there a buzz? Methadone deals with the side effects of withdrawal, but is it like giving them a little bit of something that gives them a little bit of a buzz?
11:35 a.m.
Deputy Commissioner, Transformation and Renewal Team, Correctional Service of Canada
I'm not sure. I've never, of course, taken it, but I would say that it lessens the addictive capability. I guess probably the example I could give is that if you take a nicotine patch, it at least reduces some of the elements of the addictive properties. You don't have inmates wandering around that would give the appearance of being high or being under the influence of drugs at all. It looks to control that type of behaviour.
11:35 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
If someone doesn't have any addiction, there is really no benefit at all.
11:35 a.m.
Deputy Commissioner, Transformation and Renewal Team, Correctional Service of Canada
No, not at all.
11:35 a.m.
Area Director, London Area Parole Office, Correctional Service of Canada
Can I just add that with methadone, there will be side effects. If the individuals use other drugs, other opiates or heroin, they will be sick. They're well aware of the consequences of using methadone.
I'd also add that the parole officer plays a critical role inside the institution and in the community in terms of the assessment of the person's appropriateness for methadone. Although it's a medical issue, the parole officer has to do a bit of research in terms of identifying the history of the problem.
In terms of using urinalysis for heroin, heroin stays in your system for a very short period of time. It's probably the shortest period of time of any of the drugs we deal with. It would be less than a day. It would probably be less than alcohol. It's probably less than 12 hours. The consequence is that it would be very difficult to detect through urinalysis.
11:35 a.m.
Conservative
11:35 a.m.
NDP
Marie-Claude Morin NDP Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
Thank you.
First I'd like to thank the witnesses for being here today. Your presence is appreciated.
My first question is for Mr. Toller.
Can you guarantee me that inmates who have a substance-abuse problem and want to take a treatment program can access one within a reasonable time frame?
11:35 a.m.
Deputy Commissioner, Transformation and Renewal Team, Correctional Service of Canada
Again, as I mentioned before, there are prioritizations we make. I can't guarantee that they will get it in a shortened period of time. As I mentioned, some of the programs we're looking at, especially for substance abuse, are for efficiencies to get them closer to getting treatment on time. The pilot I mentioned that has blended the substance abuse program is showing a greater timeframe for getting them to the first program on time as well as higher enrolment rates.
11:40 a.m.
NDP
Marie-Claude Morin NDP Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
Thank you.
In your testimony, you said that the treatments really work. That surprised me, because according to a CSC performance report dated 2009-2010, there was an increase in the offender readmission rate. Could you explain why there was an increase in the readmission rate if the treatments work?