Public Safety Committee on Dec. 8th, 2011

[Dr. Jan Looman]

The officers are receiving mental health training. Two or three years ago mental health training for front-line officers was introduced, and that's ongoing right now. All the officers are being trained.

In a lot of the institutions, I know the officers are very much involved in intervening with the offenders on an ongoing basis. I worked at Warkworth for a while, and I know the officers there were very much involved in dealing with the offenders in terms of counselling and helping them with issues on an ongoing basis. The officers at the treatment centre are very much part of the treatment team and are involved in helping, especially the nursing staff, but other staff as well, to deliver treatment.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you for the excellent questions.

We'll move to Mr. Garrison, please.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for being here today. I do value the perspective that you are bringing to our discussions.

You talked about an increase in those in institutions with mental illness from 12% to 20%, which is something nearing a 100% increase. Has there been a 100% increase in programming resources to deal with that?

[Dr. Jan Looman]

No.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

The second thing I want to explore was raised by Ms. Hoeppner, the idea of drug-free prisons. It seemed to me you were saying it would be a laudable goal, but you also said if they want to get drugs they will get drugs in. So do you believe drug-free prisons are a realistic goal?

[Dr. Jan Looman]

I think it's a goal to work towards.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Do you believe it can be accomplished?

[Dr. Jan Looman]

I would be surprised if it ever was.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

You also said treatment at times is interrupted by operational requirements.

[Dr. Jan Looman]

Yes.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

So if the goal of zero drugs in prisons required more restricted movements, more lockdowns, more searches, would that potentially even more restrict the time available for treatment?

[Dr. Jan Looman]

Yes, it would.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

I guess that's moved us a little way away from the implication that was left in the initial discussion.

[Dr. Jan Looman]

I think what he was suggesting was if we could keep drugs from coming in, then we wouldn't have as much need for searches and stuff like that. And that's probably true.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

But if the way of keeping them from coming in is more searches, more movement restrictions, it might also at the same time---

[Dr. Jan Looman]

If that was the method you used, yes.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Okay.

We talked about consequences when people don't receive treatment for mental illness. I want to go back. We often hear people talk about self-medication. If you haven't got a 100% increase in resources and we have roughly double the number of people with mental illness, would you say this is a major contributor to the demand for drugs in prison, this failure to treat?

[Dr. Jan Looman]

I don't know, actually. It's hard to say, because people use drugs for a whole variety of reasons. One of them is self-medication. There are other reasons. So I--

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Would it be a contributor then, would you say?

[Dr. Jan Looman]

It probably is a contributor, but it's hard to say definitively.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

In terms of mental health treatment, we know that sometimes it takes a long period of time to complete that treatment. Prisoners move in and out of various institutions. Can you talk a little bit about what happens to their mental health treatment if they move from one institution to another?

[Dr. Jan Looman]

As I was saying earlier, the offenders go through a screening process on intake, and those with mental illnesses are identified, most of them anyway, and there's a flag put on their file. So if I start my sentence at Millhaven and go through the admission process and I move to Kingston Penitentiary, the mental health team at Kingston Penitentiary is aware that I have been identified as having a mental health problem, so they quickly follow up on me and make sure that my needs are being met. If I move from Kingston to Warkworth, the mental health team at Warkworth is notified that I'm coming and they follow up with me when I arrive.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

There's good tracking.

[Dr. Jan Looman]

There's tracking and there's communication between the mental health teams. People are followed up in that fashion.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Can I then just ask about the follow-up? When those with mental illnesses leave the institutions and go into the community, does that tracking result in programming in the community? Do you have any knowledge of that?