Public Safety Committee on March 27th, 2014

[Kevin Grabowsky]

Thank you.

UCCO-SACC-CSN, our union, is in favour of Bill C-483's granting the power over temporary absences on first-degree and second-degree murder to the Parole Board. We see it as an objective third party. The Parole Board serves as an effective filter to determine which inmates are eligible for parole and when, or for their temporary absence.

The union does not oppose temporary absences. We believe it to be an important part of an inmate's reintegration into society. We believe that this change will help better manage temporary absences. As it is now, wardens experience many population pressures. They deal with a gang population, a mental health population, incompatibility, double-bunking. The granting of temporary absences is but one that they are responsible for. At this time we feel it's one, for first-degree and second-degree murder, that should be removed from their responsibility.

They are pressured to cascade inmates throughout the system to a lower security. Successful temporary absences help an inmate obtain earlier release on parole. In turn, of course, getting an inmate out is a savings for the taxpayer. As we all know, CSC is under great budget pressure right now, given the present government's cutbacks to the service. Having the wardens grant absences, with some of the pressures that they face, has led to very serious mistakes.

Take the granting of an ETA, for example, to William Bicknell in Drumheller in March 2011. A convicted murderer who beat a woman to death with a baseball bat, he was granted a temporary absence to go to see his sister. On his way back he took the correctional officer hostage, terrorized him, locked him up, took other people hostage, and went on a nine-day crime spree terrorizing northern Alberta, which led to a shootout with police in which he was shot and a police officer was wounded as well.

Yet we didn't learn. Only a few months later, Fowler, an inmate again from Drumheller, in October 2011 was granted an absence. Another murderer, who had killed a nine-year-old child, he went on one of these ETAs and took the female correctional officer hostage, strangling her with his hands and with his seat belt until she got herself free. Luckily he was apprehended a short time later.

I can go way back as far as 1987. Gingras, another inmate, a convicted murderer, was released on an ETA on a birthday pass to West Edmonton Mall. Again overpowering a single officer, tying him up—

[The Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

Mr. Grabowsky, I have to interrupt.

On a point of order, Madame Doré Lefebvre.

[Rosane Doré Lefebvre, NDP, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

While listening to the interpretation into French, I noted that the interpreter could no longer translate what was being said because of the poor sound quality. Unfortunately, she had to stop working.

Would it be possible to solve this problem so that we can continue our work?

[The Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

Okay, fine thank you.

We've been asked, Mr. Grabowsky, by the technician whether you are on a cellphone.

[Kevin Grabowsky]

No, I'm not.

[The Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

Okay, just speak again. Your line appears to be clear all of a sudden.

Go ahead, sir, just for a second.

[Kevin Grabowsky]

Okay, I was speaking of Gingras, an inmate—

[The Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

Okay, fine. Your line was very, very poor. It appears to be clear now.

We are fine now. The only request I would make, Mr. Grabowsky, is that we have simultaneous translation going on here, so would you just slow down a little bit and give our translators an opportunity to go along with you.

[Kevin Grabowsky]

Yes, sir.

[The Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

Thank you. Let's proceed again.

[Kevin Grabowsky]

Another example I cite goes back to 1987 when inmate Gingras was given a birthday pass from the maximum security Edmonton Institution to the West Edmonton Mall, where he overpowered his lone escort, tied him up, and went on a spree that led police on quite the chase. It ensued that two people were murdered while he was out at large, for which Gingras was later convicted.

In the union's view, Bill C-483 does not go far enough. For these first- and second-degree murderers, there should be at least two correctional officers acting as escorts and they should definitely be in a secured vehicle. Correctional officers are often the first victims when an escort goes wrong. We need the tools and the resources to do our job in protecting Canadians.

Bill C-483, as it stands now, also needs a correction where it says “a staff member or other person authorized by the institutional head”. That needs to be corrected. It needs to be correctional officers. It's not the public at large who should be taking these inmates out on these ETAs. Murderers should not be escorted in the public by volunteers.

In closing, the union feels very strongly this must be properly resourced for it to be successful. Parole board backlogs can produce problems for us inside the jails with our population management and our double-bunking. The board must have the means to conduct proper risk assessments of inmates when applying for these ETAs.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

Thank you very much, Mr. Grabowsky. We appreciate your taking not only the time but also going through the problems of trying to communicate here today via teleconference. I think we're on track now to a good level of comprehension.

We will now go to questions for either Mr. Grabowsky or Mr. McCormack. We have a round of questioning and we will start off with Madame Doré Lefebvre. Oh, we didn't have her name down.

Mr. Richards, then, you are up first.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Wild Rose, AB]

Mr. Grabowsky, you were a little difficult to hear at the beginning. I thought I caught most of it, but whatever you're doing now, stick with that because we can hear you much better. I apologize if I ask you something that I maybe missed. If I ask anything that is repetitive, I apologize in advance.

First of all, I'm trying to get some understanding. I believe you're here today in your capacity as the president of the correctional officers' union. You're not here just as a correctional officer or a representative of Correctional Service Canada. You're a representative of the union. Is that correct?

[Kevin Grabowsky]

That's correct.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Wild Rose, AB]

Could I ask what role the union plays in terms of the decision-making process on ETAs, if any?

[Kevin Grabowsky]

The union doesn't have any role at the present time in granting or having input.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Wild Rose, AB]

The warden who would be making these decisions wouldn't be part of the union, would he?

[Kevin Grabowsky]

No.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Wild Rose, AB]

Okay. Would members of your union put forward recommendations to the warden when the warden is making these decisions, or is that something that is outside of your role?

[Kevin Grabowsky]

No. Certainly the correctional officers in the units work with the inmates every day. They do reports. They do submissions. They do case work records. They do assessment for decision reports that go before an offender management board, which is set by the warden and the parole officer with our information that goes forward or recommendations that we make, and then things are decided on from there.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Wild Rose, AB]

Okay, you do put forward submissions and recommendations toward the decision being made by wardens in this instance then.

[Kevin Grabowsky]

Yes, sir.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Wild Rose, AB]

Okay. I want to go back to a meeting that we had earlier this week. I'm going to read a little bit of the transcript of the meeting when we had Mr. Harvey Cenaiko, who, I'm sure you're aware, is the chair of the National Parole Board.

I asked him what exactly the Parole Board considers when they're making their decisions. I'm assuming, given that your members do submit toward recommendations, that you probably could answer as to what factors are taken into consideration when the Correctional Services Canada wardens make these decisions. You'd be able to give me a pretty good sense as to what is factored into those decisions.

[Kevin Grabowsky]

That's a pretty general question.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Wild Rose, AB]

Okay, could I just stop you there? I wanted to make sure you had the knowledge before I asked the question.

Do you have knowledge of what is taken into consideration?